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I think that reasoning about morality without an irrational, faith-based approach leads to a "slippery slope" if you will of reasoning. Essentially, I believe t

I think that reasoning about morality without an irrational, faith-based approach leads to a "slippery slope" if you will of reasoning. Essentially, I believe that the fundamental utility of religion is that it provides a framework for morality which is external to logic : therefore it allows one to establish moral barriers which cannot be cross regardless of any logical rationalization. This is important when considering things like eugenics - there are rational lines of thought that lead you to very very ugly conclusions. If you have an arational "hard stop" at the personal and societal level, we avoid these situations.

xupybd 5y ago
This seems similar to the Jordan Peterson view that religion, mythology, and even good fiction serves to encode generational wisdom on how best to organize a society.
- deertick1 5y ago
  Maybe similar. While I agree with that view, I think religion is more than that. My practical argument is not that it encodes generational wisdom, necessarily, but rather that it is a source of moral reasoning that lies external to pure logic, which sacrifices what is right for what is practical, or expedient, in many cases
rxhernandez 5y ago
Empathy stops people from doing awful things pretty regularly. Moreover, many religions allow people to subvert their empathy w.r.t. people who don't fit heteronormative standards. Hell, some sects of Christianity are pretty awful to women. I don't see a use for religion other than to allow people to skirt their responsibility in having/maintaining a mature line of empathy.
- deertick1 5y ago
  Empathy can also lead you to make destructive decisions and fallcious moral reasonings. Truly though, any sect of christianity that abuses non heteronarmative people or women is not living by the law of the bible. I know this sounds like a "no true scotsman" fallacy but really, If you read the bible, 100% of awful christian behaviour is in spite of the bible, not inspired by it.
jpgvm 5y ago
I think logic builds a stronger moral foundation than religion ever could. Almost all of the worst atrocities in history have be committed due to faith/some other non-logical idealism. In this way relgion does very little to create a "hard line that can't be crossed" in fact it's often used as the justification. Empathy can be derived from logic and is sufficient for deriving modern morality. I'm not saying all religion is bad, just that it doesn't have utility over and beyond logic. Logic is more than sufficient to establish all of the perceived benefits of religion with none of the inherent risks/downsides of organised religions.

xupybd 5y ago

This seems similar to the Jordan Peterson view that religion, mythology, and even good fiction serves to encode generational wisdom on how best to organize a society.

deertick1 5y ago
Maybe similar. While I agree with that view, I think religion is more than that. My practical argument is not that it encodes generational wisdom, necessarily, but rather that it is a source of moral reasoning that lies external to pure logic, which sacrifices what is right for what is practical, or expedient, in many cases

rxhernandez 5y ago

Empathy stops people from doing awful things pretty regularly. Moreover, many religions allow people to subvert their empathy w.r.t. people who don't fit heteronormative standards. Hell, some sects of Christianity are pretty awful to women. I don't see a use for religion other than to allow people to skirt their responsibility in having/maintaining a mature line of empathy.

deertick1 5y ago
Empathy can also lead you to make destructive decisions and fallcious moral reasonings. Truly though, any sect of christianity that abuses non heteronarmative people or women is not living by the law of the bible. I know this sounds like a "no true scotsman" fallacy but really, If you read the bible, 100% of awful christian behaviour is in spite of the bible, not inspired by it.

jpgvm 5y ago

I think logic builds a stronger moral foundation than religion ever could. Almost all of the worst atrocities in history have be committed due to faith/some other non-logical idealism. In this way relgion does very little to create a "hard line that can't be crossed" in fact it's often used as the justification. Empathy can be derived from logic and is sufficient for deriving modern morality. I'm not saying all religion is bad, just that it doesn't have utility over and beyond logic. Logic is more than sufficient to establish all of the perceived benefits of religion with none of the inherent risks/downsides of organised religions.