5 ms·

Even if you get rid of wifi and USB -- even if you get rid of the radio -- you would still want electronic ignition, fuel injection, antilock brakes, traction c

Even if you get rid of wifi and USB -- even if you get rid of the radio -- you would still want electronic ignition, fuel injection, antilock brakes, traction control, airbags, onboard diagnostics... the list goes on. It's not realistic nowadays to expect a carmaker to sell vehicles that don't depend upon silicon. Ironically, it's not the complex chips that are the issue. It's the little basic ones that have been around for years. Hall effect sensors and things like that. Perhaps nobody ever thought they could be jolted by abnormal market behavior. Not to mention that prettyuch all the major automakers have laid out a timeline for some or all of their product lines to go electric. Not sure how you would build an electric vehicle without semiconductors.

Ekaros 5y ago
I believe it is impossible design and to sell a car that does not use these chips in Europe. Probably also other large markets. You can not get sufficient safety and emissions without them.
- avmich 5y ago
  My whole point is that it is, in fact, possible to have many - practically all important - of those features without complex chips - at best with more simple ones, which don't require latest semiconductor technologies to manufacture. I won't itemize to GP, but at least remember that onboard computer is a relatively recent addition for cars.
  - Ekaros 5y ago
    But those are exactly the stuff in question here.
    - avmich 5y ago
      I believe you're wrong. Look at this part - > you would still want electronic ignition, fuel injection, antilock brakes, traction control, airbags, onboard diagnostics... the list goes on. Fuel injection is quite important; I drove a car with carburetor, but fuel injection was winning even before onboard computers. However you can have one with hardly any electronics; a rather small and simple analog circuit can work. Electronic ignition begs question: what's that electronic in that? Electrical spark was used in cars, I guess, from the invention of internal combustion engines; but it's not electronic. Timing of the ignition? Cars can and were built without that; even if exists, it's something which sounds rather similar to fuel injection issue. Antilock braking was invented and used as a mechanical system. Same with airbags. Traction control at least evolved from mechanical systems. Onboard diagnostics is nice, but periodical checkups served people well for a long time. In other words, we can have a working car with necessary functions made possible either completely without electronics, or with analog electronics. In the worst case we might use small-scale integrated circuits - and that is already for functions which weren't that popular less than a generation ago. My point, which I believe was misunderstood, is that it looks like a mistake to design a modern car in such a way that it can't be produced without relying on several exclusive manufacturers of high-quality semiconductors, while those semiconductors aren't critical for basic functions of the car. Those custom chips can't even be replaced with alternatives! Make at least an extension module, which would provide all those relatively recent features. I don't understand that it worth stopping car production in case those non-essential - even if quite convenient - functions can't be supplied at the same time as basic necessities.
  - lostapathy 5y ago
    Cars have had "onboard computers" for decades, they just don't have a user interface that resembles the screen on your desk.

Ekaros 5y ago

I believe it is impossible design and to sell a car that does not use these chips in Europe. Probably also other large markets. You can not get sufficient safety and emissions without them.

avmich 5y ago
My whole point is that it is, in fact, possible to have many - practically all important - of those features without complex chips - at best with more simple ones, which don't require latest semiconductor technologies to manufacture. I won't itemize to GP, but at least remember that onboard computer is a relatively recent addition for cars.
- Ekaros 5y ago
  But those are exactly the stuff in question here.
  - avmich 5y ago
    I believe you're wrong. Look at this part - > you would still want electronic ignition, fuel injection, antilock brakes, traction control, airbags, onboard diagnostics... the list goes on. Fuel injection is quite important; I drove a car with carburetor, but fuel injection was winning even before onboard computers. However you can have one with hardly any electronics; a rather small and simple analog circuit can work. Electronic ignition begs question: what's that electronic in that? Electrical spark was used in cars, I guess, from the invention of internal combustion engines; but it's not electronic. Timing of the ignition? Cars can and were built without that; even if exists, it's something which sounds rather similar to fuel injection issue. Antilock braking was invented and used as a mechanical system. Same with airbags. Traction control at least evolved from mechanical systems. Onboard diagnostics is nice, but periodical checkups served people well for a long time. In other words, we can have a working car with necessary functions made possible either completely without electronics, or with analog electronics. In the worst case we might use small-scale integrated circuits - and that is already for functions which weren't that popular less than a generation ago. My point, which I believe was misunderstood, is that it looks like a mistake to design a modern car in such a way that it can't be produced without relying on several exclusive manufacturers of high-quality semiconductors, while those semiconductors aren't critical for basic functions of the car. Those custom chips can't even be replaced with alternatives! Make at least an extension module, which would provide all those relatively recent features. I don't understand that it worth stopping car production in case those non-essential - even if quite convenient - functions can't be supplied at the same time as basic necessities.
- lostapathy 5y ago
  Cars have had "onboard computers" for decades, they just don't have a user interface that resembles the screen on your desk.