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I’m not sure the larger batteries are even necessary. With an EV you can start each day fully charged. You just need enough battery to handle your daily commut

I’m not sure the larger batteries are even necessary. With an EV you can start each day fully charged. You just need enough battery to handle your daily commute and the few errands. What’s missing is something to handle those few occasions when you need to drive that extra distance. It seems kind of silly to try and cram that extra flexibility into the same vehicle.

outworlder 5y ago
> I’m not sure the larger batteries are even necessary. They are not. What's needed is expansion of the infrastructure. And that's not even about quick chargers. In cities you don't need them. What you need is standard level 2 chargers wherever you may want to go. Work, school, shopping, movie theaters, whatever. Most vehicles spend most of their day parked somewhere. They should be charging then. Larger batteries are only really going to be needed in very remote regions.
- elihu 5y ago
  Big batteries would be nice for long trips. I'm working on an EV conversion right now that ought to get me a hundred miles of range when I'm done, which is good enough for about 98% of my regular driving. (Getting more range with a conversion can be tricky, as it would mean adding a lot of weight to the vehicle.) Sometimes it's nice to go to the beach, though... 100 miles would get me to the beach, but it's not enough get back. Most of the places I'd want to park my car for a day at the beach don't have chargers. And quick charging isn't going to be an option. I hope eventually we get to point where we start adding electrification to major highways, so that vehicles don't even have to stop to charge. Then range will be much less of an issue.
  - ratsforhorses 5y ago
    Congrats on the conversion...it should be done more, just a thought .... would a portable EV charger be the solution? just a quick google let me find Blink Mobile EV charging station...but maybe there are cheaper/smaller/lighter solutions....or solar panels on your roof?
    - elihu 5y ago
      The J1772 ports we have in the United States are basically just 110 or 220 volts with a fancy plug and an electronic handshake. I could bring an "EVSE" with me that can plug into a regular 110 or 220v electrical outlet, but finding an electrical outlet near where I want to park is probably more difficult than finding a J1772 charge port, unless I'm visiting someone's house. The "charger" terminology is especially confusing, since technically there is a part called the charger that goes in the car -- it converts external AC power to DC at the voltage needed to charge the battery. The chargers normally installed in conversions aren't typically capable of charging quickly. The charger I'm looking at [1] maxes out at 3KW, which could charge a 27kwh battery in about 9 hours. If I spend the money to get a second charger to run in parallel, I could get that down to 4.5 hours. Solar doesn't really work for long trips; the power you get is just too low. I'm in favor of solar panels being installed on EVs generally, as it would reduce the amount of power you draw when you charge, especially if you only drive a few miles a day on average. It just isn't a solution to the range problem unless you're willing to wait a long time to charge (like weeks) and/or manually deploy a giant solar array any time you stop like Mark Watney. This conversion car I think just won't be a road trip car, and that's okay. Maybe eventually aftermarket batteries and chargers will improve to the point where I can plausibly install a 200-mile range battery with a half-hour 80% charge capability and keep the whole battery pack under four or five hundred pounds. [1] https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/tsm2500-and-charge-controller.html https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/tsm2500-and-charge-controll...
Tagbert 5y ago
It’s partly about convincing new buyers to be comfortable with them. Buyers are not fully rational and will often overestimate their need for long range and will overvalue the anxiety of needing to charge. Short range cars are seen as to much risk even if the price is lower. Once enough people have some experience with EVs and the market grows enough, there will be more interest and a demand for cars with a limited range at a cheaper price point.
freeflight 5y ago
> What’s missing is something to handle those few occasions when you need to drive that extra distance. It seems kind of silly to try and cram that extra flexibility into the same vehicle. I wouldn't be surprised if rental battery trailers become a big thing due to that. When using the EV for every-day stuff the internal batteries will be enough. Going on a long trip? Add a battery trailer for more range and extra cargo/baggage space.
- flabbergasted 5y ago
  I wouldn't be surprised if UHaul started this as a service. Seems like a perfect fit to me.
- mceachen 5y ago
  Neat idea, but electric charging stations are pretty well established, at least along coastal and central California. If you look at plugshare you might be surprised how many quick charge (>50amp) stations are available along, say, I5 or US101.

outworlder 5y ago

> I’m not sure the larger batteries are even necessary. They are not. What's needed is expansion of the infrastructure. And that's not even about quick chargers. In cities you don't need them. What you need is standard level 2 chargers wherever you may want to go. Work, school, shopping, movie theaters, whatever. Most vehicles spend most of their day parked somewhere. They should be charging then. Larger batteries are only really going to be needed in very remote regions.

elihu 5y ago
Big batteries would be nice for long trips. I'm working on an EV conversion right now that ought to get me a hundred miles of range when I'm done, which is good enough for about 98% of my regular driving. (Getting more range with a conversion can be tricky, as it would mean adding a lot of weight to the vehicle.) Sometimes it's nice to go to the beach, though... 100 miles would get me to the beach, but it's not enough get back. Most of the places I'd want to park my car for a day at the beach don't have chargers. And quick charging isn't going to be an option. I hope eventually we get to point where we start adding electrification to major highways, so that vehicles don't even have to stop to charge. Then range will be much less of an issue.
- ratsforhorses 5y ago
  Congrats on the conversion...it should be done more, just a thought .... would a portable EV charger be the solution? just a quick google let me find Blink Mobile EV charging station...but maybe there are cheaper/smaller/lighter solutions....or solar panels on your roof?
  - elihu 5y ago
    The J1772 ports we have in the United States are basically just 110 or 220 volts with a fancy plug and an electronic handshake. I could bring an "EVSE" with me that can plug into a regular 110 or 220v electrical outlet, but finding an electrical outlet near where I want to park is probably more difficult than finding a J1772 charge port, unless I'm visiting someone's house. The "charger" terminology is especially confusing, since technically there is a part called the charger that goes in the car -- it converts external AC power to DC at the voltage needed to charge the battery. The chargers normally installed in conversions aren't typically capable of charging quickly. The charger I'm looking at [1] maxes out at 3KW, which could charge a 27kwh battery in about 9 hours. If I spend the money to get a second charger to run in parallel, I could get that down to 4.5 hours. Solar doesn't really work for long trips; the power you get is just too low. I'm in favor of solar panels being installed on EVs generally, as it would reduce the amount of power you draw when you charge, especially if you only drive a few miles a day on average. It just isn't a solution to the range problem unless you're willing to wait a long time to charge (like weeks) and/or manually deploy a giant solar array any time you stop like Mark Watney. This conversion car I think just won't be a road trip car, and that's okay. Maybe eventually aftermarket batteries and chargers will improve to the point where I can plausibly install a 200-mile range battery with a half-hour 80% charge capability and keep the whole battery pack under four or five hundred pounds. [1] https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/tsm2500-and-charge-controller.html https://www.thunderstruck-ev.com/tsm2500-and-charge-controll...

Tagbert 5y ago

It’s partly about convincing new buyers to be comfortable with them. Buyers are not fully rational and will often overestimate their need for long range and will overvalue the anxiety of needing to charge. Short range cars are seen as to much risk even if the price is lower. Once enough people have some experience with EVs and the market grows enough, there will be more interest and a demand for cars with a limited range at a cheaper price point.

freeflight 5y ago

> What’s missing is something to handle those few occasions when you need to drive that extra distance. It seems kind of silly to try and cram that extra flexibility into the same vehicle. I wouldn't be surprised if rental battery trailers become a big thing due to that. When using the EV for every-day stuff the internal batteries will be enough. Going on a long trip? Add a battery trailer for more range and extra cargo/baggage space.

flabbergasted 5y ago
I wouldn't be surprised if UHaul started this as a service. Seems like a perfect fit to me.
mceachen 5y ago
Neat idea, but electric charging stations are pretty well established, at least along coastal and central California. If you look at plugshare you might be surprised how many quick charge (>50amp) stations are available along, say, I5 or US101.