5 ms·

Who killed the netbook?

37 points by pwg 15y ago

regularfry 15y ago
I don't know where the idea that Linux-based netbooks don't have an app ecosystem comes from, but I wish it would go away. It's like apt-get doesn't exist, or something.
- AlexandrB 15y ago
  Apt-get is great, but it's not an app ecosystem. I suspect getting a commercial app into the debian apt repositories would be near impossible. Getting the user to install a third-party repository, on the other hand, is nearly equivalent to having them just install the software. Besides the considerations of HOW to get an app into apt-get - what if you want to charge for it? Apt-get simply wasn't designed to distribute paid software and you'd have to implement all the missing pieces yourself (account management, payment processing, license management, in-app purchases/upgrades). Doing this per-app is no better than the current situation in Windows from a developer POV. Adding this functionality to some derivative of apt-get, on the other hand, is HARD - besides the technical challenges, you'd have to overcome legal issues with taking payments in a variety of jurisdictions with different regulations and tax laws.
  - bryanlarsen 15y ago
    It may have been hard, but Ubuntu's already done it. The Ubuntu Software Centre contains pay apps.
  - elehack 15y ago
    Ubuntu's software center, built on apt, has support for commercial software sales.
dexen 15y ago
`Smartphone' is only half the answer to `who killed the netbook?'. `The hype' is the other half. Perhaps surprisingly to us, the proverbial `average consumer' does not understand performance and ergonomics aspects of hardware very well. To most of them, an measly 7''...10'' screen seems just as good for productivity and ergonomics as a decent 17'' or a tight 15''. They don't realize the storage (be it harddrive or SSD) is much slower than in larger computers, and RAM is underprovisioned. The hype was there, the price was right, and netbooks sold like hot buns. But one size did not fit all, and now we have some satisfied owners and some dissatisfied ones. The admin at my workplace is very satisfied; a netbook is his ternary computer (after a desktop and yes, an Android smartphone), it delivers just what he needs when he's on the move. But the folks who bought a netbook as their main computer are oft dissatisfied; the hardware simply did not live up to the expectations. Heck, a decent smartphone (say, Nokia N950) is pretty much as beefy as an average netbook. The netbook rose by the hype, and now is `dying' by it: undergoing severe market shrinkage, to match supply to actual demand for cheap ultraportables, probably as secondary device.
aristidb 15y ago
Netbooks are painfully slow. I got myself a netbook (Samsung NC10 Plus) recently, and while I don't regret it because I view it as an emergency computer if I should spill water on my laptop, it isn't pleasant to use.
- artmageddon 15y ago
  I'm with you on all points. I have one myself that I use solely for coding when I'm commuting to/from work on the train, and for that purpose it works wonderfully. I've had to treat even a new netbook(for the time, anyway) like it was a very old PC... so I kept the setup on it to an absolute minimum. It boots very quickly and I can usually get working in very little time. Once I get back home, all my code is sync'd with my other PC's on Dropbox and I continue from there. That said, I wouldn't recommend using it as a primary machine for long durations... not without a spare mouse, keyboard or monitor to hook up to the VGA port. I've done that setup in the past and it's worked out for the most part, but without them I don't think I could use it for more than 2 hours.
- rjbond3rd 15y ago
  It depends on the processor. A low-end single-core Intel Atom is okay for light browsing. But some ultra-portables with dual-core CPU's are much zippier, e.g., the Thinkpad x120e with the dual-core AMD Fusion E350.
  - dexen 15y ago
    For most uses it depends on memory too: both RAM and mass storage. A typical user has a browser, an IM and some other window opened most of the time. A bunch of systray icons, perhaps also antivirus, if MS Windows. A typical netbook is underprovisioned in RAM and has slow storage to match; pain both when starting up and in case of swapping VM pages. Topped up with a joke of a GPU, likely using up access cycles of system memory instead of having own dedicated RAM. Less display estate (pixel-wise) means you have to Alt+Tab or scroll around more often, too; sucking up your time. So no, CPU doesn't have to be the only choke point in a netbook, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahls_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahls_law kicks in.
angus77 15y ago
I can see how the iPad is a direct competitor to the netbook market, but the MacBook Air? I thought the comparisons were ridiculous at the time, and still do. I have enormous trouble imagining someone actually trying to decide between the two---price, size and specs were in completely different worlds.
- bonaldi 15y ago
  Imagine harder. If you were a Mac user -- say you have a big Mac Pro or an iMac -- and you wanted something small and portable as a secondary machine for coffee shop and travel antics then you may well have found yourself considering these netbook things. Then the 11" Air came out, and turned that "should I get a netbook" into "should I get a netbook which is very cheap but doesn't run my Mac apps or should I pay a bit more and get the smallest Mac ever?" Voila: someone trying to decide between the two.
  - revorad 15y ago
    If you are primarily a Mac user, why would you ever consider buying a netbook at all unless you are considering switching to PCs in general?
    - allenp 15y ago
      Why does it have to be all or nothing? I don't think for most consumers there is that much economy of scale that their secondary devices would need to be the same.
    - glhaynes 15y ago
      Because they're so cheap and so many of the netbook use cases fit in just fine with a primarily-Mac environment: no need to switch from your main Mac if you're just adding in a little box that can go on a trip with you, access internet services, and sync some photos from a camera.
  - angus77 15y ago
    Except that the first MacBook Airs were not 11", they were 17", and those were the ones being compared to netbooks (because they were light). A while later came the 13" models, and not until quite some time later did the 11" models come out (at which point it would be safe to say it was a netbook, not competing with netbooks). EDIT: Wow, I need to have my memory checked. I must have been confused by the $1700 price tag into thinking there was a 17" MacBook Air. I do distinctly remember being baffled by reviewers comparing the first Airs to the EeePC, though, as it seemed to me they weren't even aiming at the same markets.
nextparadigms 15y ago
The problem with netbooks is they are very slow with Windows on them and most of them still cost $500. For most people a tablet would offer a much better experience overall for surfing the web. But I think we'll start seeing a lot of ARM based slim netbooks/low-end notebooks with quad core 1.5 Ghz Tegra 3 chips that will cost under $250-$300 with either Chrome OS or Android, that will fulfill the netbook's purpose of surfing the web very well for that price. I think a lot of people would still prefer a machine that is half the price of iPad and has a real keyboard, for surfing the web, and that will seem very fast, at least compared to an Atom running under Windows 7. I didn't read the article, but was he suggesting it was the Macbook Air that killed the netbook? I think that's ridiculous. A macbook air is what $1000-$1400? It wouldn't even be on most people's radar when looking for a cheap mobile computer they can surf the web on.
- GFischer 15y ago
  Are they really that expensive in the U.S.? I expected them to be cheaper than here in Uruguay, where an Atom-based netbook sells from U$ 300 to U$ 500. And, Windows 7 or XP netbooks offer a very good web surfing experience (both my girlfriend and my mother-in-law are very pleased).
- todayiamme 15y ago
  >>> didn't read the article, but was he suggesting it was the Macbook Air that killed the netbook? <<< I'm sorry if this is rude, but I downvoted you. I did that because you didn't bother to read the article, but you bothered to comment. It's just isn't that simple. His argument for the MacBook Air is that it's in the same form factor, while having incredible battery life and being more powerful computationally. Plus, throw in OS X and you have a deal. In a way Air is netbook inspired in terms of the form factor, and the it killed the netbook by making the point that you could still pack in impressive features into a form factor that small by conventional standards, while having a decent profit margin. In the article, the author makes the point that what really killed the netbook was portable computing (in the form of smart phones and tablets) that packed the same punch and was more intuitive, while maintaining a good enough profit margin for hardware manufacturers to stampede in order to get into the segment. That said, I have a netbook, an Acer Aspire One, and it runs Ubuntu 10.10 with a grin and is quite awesome once you get used to the tiny keyboard... Besides, I really do think that no one is taking real advantage of modern computing and you can still write Ruby code on Pentium 2 era PC once you flash it and boil it down to the basics. I think that if someone is dedicated then even a dumb terminal is enough to write code, why do you need that new found computational power? This really is an honest question.
axiom 15y ago
I'd say what killed it is that for $200 you can buy a decent used 13" laptop, instead of spending $250-300 on a borderline unusable new 10" netbook.
- dsmithn 15y ago
  It's not even just used laptops anymore. I sold computers for four years at Office Depot and saw the rise of Netbooks. It wasn't long after that that low end traditional laptops started hitting the sub $400 price range during sales and clearance and customers had a lot harder time justifying the smaller size and lower specs.
- eftpotrm 15y ago
  That assumes price is the only selling point. It isn't for me; I like the extra portability of the smaller machine. It goes to places a 13" wouldn't because it fits in the bag more easily.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  I'd say the 13" laptop won't kill the 10" netbook at least until it fits in the same space. I carry mine with me much more than I would carry a 13" laptop.
oddthink 15y ago
I just wonder what the author thinks "fatuous" means. What on earth is a "fatuous notebook"? I do keep looking for a good netbook-like solution for recreational coding and writing while traveling. If it can run emacs/gcc/X11 as well as a 1998-era laptop, I'd be satisfied, but I can't quite find anything that's cheap enough for that almost-throw-away use.
- dablya 15y ago
  What about a used laptop?
  - krakensden 15y ago
    They're almost always broken, failing, or have no battery life left (and you can't get replacements). It's much more trouble than it's worth.
tobylane 15y ago
I'm hoping enough people know that there isn't much space between smartphones, tablets ("there isn't a tablet market, there'a an ipad market") and normal laptops. I'm keeping track of how much my mums netbook gets used now she has an iphone, and the work laptop she often went to anyway. It's a bit like drugs for Africa. Do we really need to be able to buy things as cheaply as they do? No, $100, even $400 laptops are silly. I hope so at least, I'm quite big and need space between keyboard and screen.
Wilya 15y ago
Am I the only 'happy' netbook user out there ? I'm still using a 2 year old HP netbook and pretty happy with it. It is light enough that I can actually have it in my bag even when I don't explicitly need it, and largely sufficient for any coding or web stuff. And you can actually work on it. Which isn't true (at least from my point of view) of any smartphone or tablets. The app ecosystem isn't even remotely comparable on that point.
- rbanffy 15y ago
  No. I am also happy with my first-gen Acer Aspire One.
Ruudjah 15y ago
Android and Chrome will revive the netbook. They are free (as in beer) OSes, and run with very minimal hardware. As such, devices having one of both OSes will be the OLPC replacement. As the third world has either very old or no computer, those cheap devices will flood the market. Netbook formfactor will be part of them, as desktop work will still be needed.
rheide 15y ago
I dare say that the netbook is not dead at all for people who travel a lot. I own an iPad and a very slow (WinXP) netbook myself, but I would prefer the netbook over the iPad for travel any day. At least I have plenty of storage space for my photos on my netbook and I can plug in whatever USB hardware I want.
- artmageddon 15y ago
  As I said in another comment, I use rail every day to and from work. For coding, the netbook wins hands down. It runs a bare minimum WinXP setup(i.e. no virus scanner or loads of services to start up), so I get done what I need to. I'd much rather use it for photo processing / writing emails etc. also. Of course, once I start needing remote connectivity for work, I'll have to use the iPad.. the netbook battery only lasts around 1.5 hours.
bryanlarsen 15y ago
Nobody killed the netbooks. They aren't dead. http://liliputing.com/2011/06/survey-netbooks-are-just-as-popular-as-tablets-plenty-of-people-dont-care-at-all.html http://liliputing.com/2011/06/survey-netbooks-are-just-as-po... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/24/0426232/Who-Killed-the-Netbook http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/24/0426232/Who-Kill...
- dorian-graph 15y ago
  That's what I was wandering too. While I didn't have any sources to link, as far as my experience at university and in general here a lot of people own netbooks and as an estimate, at least 1/3 of students had netbooks as opposed to laptops. I used one (Samsung N130 or something, a bit old) for the first few weeks before I got a new laptop and loved the size and battery life . .
- FilterJoe 15y ago
  Agreed. After reading this post, I looked on Amazon and saw that a variety of EEE PC and Samsung netbooks are still for sale in the $200-$400 price range. I also found that around 30 million netbooks are expected to be sold in 2011. Not dead. Given the subject of the post and the amount of detail the author went into, I was disappointed that there was no mention (or links to posts) of any sales numbers. Just the word dead, death, or killed mentioned 12 times.
kleiba 15y ago
I'll tell you the real reason why netbooks are going extinct: because I like them. They're the ideal computing environment for me. And the world is designed in a way that I can never be happy. Sorry, fellow netbook users... When I first heard about netbooks, my jaw dropped metaphorically: this was exactly the kind of device I had been waiting for all these years: small, light, long battery life, GNU/Linux - and cheapo! Heck, I even had this secret fantasy in which netbooks would finally herald GNU/Linux on the desktop (I know, I should have been suspicious right then). I'm not a casual user. I'm a hacker, I spend more time in front of my machine then doing anything else (including sleeping). And yet I like being mobile! I'm not a gamer. I don't watch movies on my computer. My laptop is not a life style product, it's a tool, it's the tool, a Swiss army knife if you will. And let's be honest: you may call a netbook underpowered, but computers have been fast enough already a couple of years ago for almost all serious tasks. Sure, if a compile starts taking too long for my taste, I'll run it remotely on a compute server next time: that's what puts the net in netbook! So I really thought, for once, things went right. I'd never have to spent huge amount of cash on my next laptop again. From now on, it's only going to be netbooks for me. Life is great! Of course, that couldn't last. Did I cheer too loud? Did I dare smile happily in public? I don't know, but somehow the word must have gotten out: "Pssst! Did you hear? Kleiba seems to be happy!" -- "Oh, no worries, we can change that easily..." And the next thing I know, tablets are kicking netbooks' asses... I mean: tablets! What the heck? What am I supposed to be doing with them? Oh, oh, I see, I'm supposed to use all the great "apps". Yeah, well, you know what? I don't care about them. How can I write my own apps? Oh, too bad, for that you need a "real" computer (or be into BDSM)... Sorry for the rant, folks! But are there other fellow hackers on HN who find it ironic that while we are the backbone of the industry, while we are the ones who enable others to use all their beloved tech in the first place, while without us the big companies wouldn't see any dime - that the main stream market doesn't care about us? That we are pushed into a niche, instead of being pulled into the spotlight? (Nah, I'm only being half serious...)
- watty 15y ago
  Reminds me of the gaming industry where the "hardcore" PC gamers continue to get shafted by exclusive releases to consoles and gimmicky motion controls.
xradionut 15y ago
For some folks, (like my wife and many of her friends), the netbook is the perfect computer. It's light enough to be taken anywhere and powerful enough to fulfill the daily tasks for the casual user. For her, a touch typist, the keyboard is infinitely more useful than a touch screen on a tablet. With a extra 1GB of DRAM, Windows 7 runs well enough that she can use it for almost all her personal needs sans the very few rare tasks, (encoding media or database reporting), that may require the horsepower of my home workstation. With the new hardware in the pipeline, I believe there is still a long life in the netbook model to create a very portable computer with a real keyboard that people will find useful and compelling. I'll probably wouldn't be using it as the main development system, but I don't see a problem having a high battery life, Linux/Windows machine that's easy to lug around. For the creator in me, tablets don't cut it.
athst 15y ago
I think they are giving the OLPC way too much credit for starting the netbook trend. I remember that when it was introduced, one of the main criticisms was that the industry was already making laptops almost that cheap anyway. Onn the other side, they aren't giving near enough credit to the iPad, which was pretty much the sole reason for the fall of netbooks. Netbooks were never good products anyway (especially the OLPC), and while they demonstrated a clear demand for mobile computing in a low price range, they were extremely vulnerable for someone else to come along and create a better option for a similar price. This was the iPad. Look at the chart here: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/05/netbook-ipad/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/05/netbook-ipad/ Netbooks were already slowing (imho because of just being inferior products) and when the iPad was introduced, it's the last nail in the coffin.
wheels 15y ago
I just ordered my first netbook yesterday. The main feature? It's disposable. My main laptop is a Macbook Pro. It cost €1400. The netbook I ordered cost €136 (used). I have a cheap cell phone because I lose my phone at least once a year. There are situations where I'm uncomfortable dragging along my main expensive laptop because it's major suckage if it get lost / stolen / damaged. The netbook, with its 9.5 hour battery, combined with my mobile broadband (with tethering), makes it fine to throw in the backpack when going camping for the weekend (as I'll be doing next weekend). In a pinch if I need to write a few mails or SSH into a server to check something out, I'm covered. On the other hand, I won't cry very long if the thing gets trashed.
- Auguste 15y ago
  The fact they are so disposable makes them great for travel or university/school. I've used an Eee PC as a secondary computer ever since they came out about 4 years ago. Do I care if it gets stolen or breaks? Not really. With TrueCrypt and Dropbox, my data is safe and I'm only down ~$300 AUD.
  - pasbesoin 15y ago
    If you have to travel in/out of the U.S. or another jurisdiction known for aggressive examination/confiscation, all the more so. Or, just have what you need on a server, buy a netbook at the destination, wipe it and give it to someone when you depart. (Be mindful of the limitations of particularly but not only SSD wipes. Better to start off use with encryption in place; any sacrificed blocks will be useless without the key.) When the prices are low enough, this can be affordable, if not enjoyable. I don't have particular secrets to hide, myself, but I don't like the idea of "gubmint" freely rummaging through whatever it will. And when are data are aggregated, we all have secrets. (E.g. insurance coverage or employment denial because of family medical history or crazy Uncle Joey or whatever.)
tibbon 15y ago
I've got a Windows desktop, Macbook Pro, iPad 2 and iPhone. Netbooks have always seemed like a frustrating compromise. Keyboard just too small for me to comfortably type on (might as well use my iPad), just enough power to actually work properly for me, and yet another item to carry around. I was really close to buying one a few times, and prior to my iPad it made sense I think. Now, less so.
- chadgeidel 15y ago
  I'm in the same boat - except replace the iPad with a netbook. I figured - why get a "big iPhone" when I can have a real computer with an actual keyboard for half the price? I am sorely tempted to "trade in" the current netbook and Macbook pro for a Sandy Bridge Macbook Air.
eftpotrm 15y ago
Well, I certainly hope that reports of the netbook's death are in fact reports of the death of the netbook's hype... I'm another of those who find them almost perfect devices. It gets used for real, serious, mobile computing. Visual Studio 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 on a netbook with a long battery life make a wonderful go-anywhere productivity device and let me work far, far more easily than I could otherwise because it can just slip in the bottom of my bag. I can and do write music on it almost anywhere in a MIDI sequencer. Firefox works well for regular browsing, OpenOffice works well for note taking in meetings. I can touchtype on my netbook with comparable speed and accuracy to any other device, certainly fast enough to take notes live in a presentation. I won't claim it's fast enough for doing any very heavy photography work but it's a very useful portable preview and backing storage device. Give me a tablet with a card reader and decent storage and I could do the photography as easily on that, I'll concede. Give me a good mobile browser and that's pretty much as good as on the netbook, though from my experience with Android Firefox and Chrome I'm not convinced yet. Music? Maybe, I can see it could be done but I'm not sure the apps are there yet from what I've heard. The rest though? You want to show me someone typing at an accurate 100WPM on a tablet without an external keyboard? (By which point I'd rather have them integrated and a bit more rugged, personally.) You want to show me someone doing serious software development on a tablet? Small, light, cheap, compatible. Netbooks are all of these and let me Just Get On With It. Tablets aren't.
rayiner 15y ago
One thing about the Linux point: why buy a computer whose major advantage is portability and battery life, then give up a huge chunk of the latter by putting Linux on it? That's the thing that pissed me off most about my netbook. Windows sucks and I couldn't put Linux on it without its shitty power management cutting a couple of hours off the battery.
- ch0wn 15y ago
  That's an unfair generalization, especially if you're in control of the hardware used. There are some drivers that certainly drain your battery very quickly (I'm looking at you, Broadcom!), but there are other hardware constellations where Linux has a significantly lower power usage than Windows. It's up to the hardware manufacturers to select the right components.
- Auguste 15y ago
  When I first got my Eee PC 1000HA two or three years ago, I immediately noticed that it got far better battery life on Windows - about 4 hours, as opposed to 3 on Ubuntu and Arch Linux. That lead me to just stick with Windows XP for a few years. Things seems to have improved now, though. I installed Slackware 13.37 on it about a week ago, and it gets a full 4 hours: david@Fnord ~]$ acpi Battery 0: Discharging, 100%, 04:10:47 remaining [david@Fnord ~]$ uname -a Linux Fnord 2.6.37.6-smp #2 SMP Sat Apr 9 23:39:07 CDT 2011 i686 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N270 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux I'd give Linux another shot on the laptop.
rexreed 15y ago
I disagree with the premise of this article. Netbooks aren't dead. Therefore, no one killed them.
cycojesus 15y ago
It's dying (is it?) because it's slow and not-so-useable. Ok, I just say that because a netbook (Gigabyte Q1000C, 2g of RAM, Atom N470) has been my main personal computing platform for some months now, but boy is it painful! The thing even fails to finish moderately heavy compilation tasks (eg. qemu or gcc). Oh, and it's made of subpar components too, the touchpad doesn't handle even vertical scrolling! There's like 2 non-visible areas tappable/touchable to go up and down... And the keyboard randomly decides that it like the key I last pressed and keeps pressing it for me... That rant passed it must be said that's I'm not a typical user and my wife use her first gen Aspire One like nothing's wrong so maybe it's just me.

37 points by pwg 15y ago

I don't know where the idea that Linux-based netbooks don't have an app ecosystem comes from, but I wish it would go away. It's like apt-get doesn't exist, or something.

AlexandrB 15y ago
Apt-get is great, but it's not an app ecosystem. I suspect getting a commercial app into the debian apt repositories would be near impossible. Getting the user to install a third-party repository, on the other hand, is nearly equivalent to having them just install the software. Besides the considerations of HOW to get an app into apt-get - what if you want to charge for it? Apt-get simply wasn't designed to distribute paid software and you'd have to implement all the missing pieces yourself (account management, payment processing, license management, in-app purchases/upgrades). Doing this per-app is no better than the current situation in Windows from a developer POV. Adding this functionality to some derivative of apt-get, on the other hand, is HARD - besides the technical challenges, you'd have to overcome legal issues with taking payments in a variety of jurisdictions with different regulations and tax laws.
- bryanlarsen 15y ago
  It may have been hard, but Ubuntu's already done it. The Ubuntu Software Centre contains pay apps.
- elehack 15y ago
  Ubuntu's software center, built on apt, has support for commercial software sales.

dexen 15y ago

`Smartphone' is only half the answer to `who killed the netbook?'. `The hype' is the other half. Perhaps surprisingly to us, the proverbial `average consumer' does not understand performance and ergonomics aspects of hardware very well. To most of them, an measly 7''...10'' screen seems just as good for productivity and ergonomics as a decent 17'' or a tight 15''. They don't realize the storage (be it harddrive or SSD) is much slower than in larger computers, and RAM is underprovisioned. The hype was there, the price was right, and netbooks sold like hot buns. But one size did not fit all, and now we have some satisfied owners and some dissatisfied ones. The admin at my workplace is very satisfied; a netbook is his ternary computer (after a desktop and yes, an Android smartphone), it delivers just what he needs when he's on the move. But the folks who bought a netbook as their main computer are oft dissatisfied; the hardware simply did not live up to the expectations. Heck, a decent smartphone (say, Nokia N950) is pretty much as beefy as an average netbook. The netbook rose by the hype, and now is `dying' by it: undergoing severe market shrinkage, to match supply to actual demand for cheap ultraportables, probably as secondary device.

aristidb 15y ago

Netbooks are painfully slow. I got myself a netbook (Samsung NC10 Plus) recently, and while I don't regret it because I view it as an emergency computer if I should spill water on my laptop, it isn't pleasant to use.

artmageddon 15y ago
I'm with you on all points. I have one myself that I use solely for coding when I'm commuting to/from work on the train, and for that purpose it works wonderfully. I've had to treat even a new netbook(for the time, anyway) like it was a very old PC... so I kept the setup on it to an absolute minimum. It boots very quickly and I can usually get working in very little time. Once I get back home, all my code is sync'd with my other PC's on Dropbox and I continue from there. That said, I wouldn't recommend using it as a primary machine for long durations... not without a spare mouse, keyboard or monitor to hook up to the VGA port. I've done that setup in the past and it's worked out for the most part, but without them I don't think I could use it for more than 2 hours.
rjbond3rd 15y ago
It depends on the processor. A low-end single-core Intel Atom is okay for light browsing. But some ultra-portables with dual-core CPU's are much zippier, e.g., the Thinkpad x120e with the dual-core AMD Fusion E350.
- dexen 15y ago
  For most uses it depends on memory too: both RAM and mass storage. A typical user has a browser, an IM and some other window opened most of the time. A bunch of systray icons, perhaps also antivirus, if MS Windows. A typical netbook is underprovisioned in RAM and has slow storage to match; pain both when starting up and in case of swapping VM pages. Topped up with a joke of a GPU, likely using up access cycles of system memory instead of having own dedicated RAM. Less display estate (pixel-wise) means you have to Alt+Tab or scroll around more often, too; sucking up your time. So no, CPU doesn't have to be the only choke point in a netbook, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahls_law http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Amdahls_law kicks in.

angus77 15y ago

I can see how the iPad is a direct competitor to the netbook market, but the MacBook Air? I thought the comparisons were ridiculous at the time, and still do. I have enormous trouble imagining someone actually trying to decide between the two---price, size and specs were in completely different worlds.

bonaldi 15y ago
Imagine harder. If you were a Mac user -- say you have a big Mac Pro or an iMac -- and you wanted something small and portable as a secondary machine for coffee shop and travel antics then you may well have found yourself considering these netbook things. Then the 11" Air came out, and turned that "should I get a netbook" into "should I get a netbook which is very cheap but doesn't run my Mac apps or should I pay a bit more and get the smallest Mac ever?" Voila: someone trying to decide between the two.
- revorad 15y ago
  If you are primarily a Mac user, why would you ever consider buying a netbook at all unless you are considering switching to PCs in general?
  - allenp 15y ago
    Why does it have to be all or nothing? I don't think for most consumers there is that much economy of scale that their secondary devices would need to be the same.
  - glhaynes 15y ago
    Because they're so cheap and so many of the netbook use cases fit in just fine with a primarily-Mac environment: no need to switch from your main Mac if you're just adding in a little box that can go on a trip with you, access internet services, and sync some photos from a camera.
- angus77 15y ago
  Except that the first MacBook Airs were not 11", they were 17", and those were the ones being compared to netbooks (because they were light). A while later came the 13" models, and not until quite some time later did the 11" models come out (at which point it would be safe to say it was a netbook, not competing with netbooks). EDIT: Wow, I need to have my memory checked. I must have been confused by the $1700 price tag into thinking there was a 17" MacBook Air. I do distinctly remember being baffled by reviewers comparing the first Airs to the EeePC, though, as it seemed to me they weren't even aiming at the same markets.

nextparadigms 15y ago

The problem with netbooks is they are very slow with Windows on them and most of them still cost $500. For most people a tablet would offer a much better experience overall for surfing the web. But I think we'll start seeing a lot of ARM based slim netbooks/low-end notebooks with quad core 1.5 Ghz Tegra 3 chips that will cost under $250-$300 with either Chrome OS or Android, that will fulfill the netbook's purpose of surfing the web very well for that price. I think a lot of people would still prefer a machine that is half the price of iPad and has a real keyboard, for surfing the web, and that will seem very fast, at least compared to an Atom running under Windows 7. I didn't read the article, but was he suggesting it was the Macbook Air that killed the netbook? I think that's ridiculous. A macbook air is what $1000-$1400? It wouldn't even be on most people's radar when looking for a cheap mobile computer they can surf the web on.

GFischer 15y ago
Are they really that expensive in the U.S.? I expected them to be cheaper than here in Uruguay, where an Atom-based netbook sells from U$ 300 to U$ 500. And, Windows 7 or XP netbooks offer a very good web surfing experience (both my girlfriend and my mother-in-law are very pleased).
todayiamme 15y ago
>>> didn't read the article, but was he suggesting it was the Macbook Air that killed the netbook? <<< I'm sorry if this is rude, but I downvoted you. I did that because you didn't bother to read the article, but you bothered to comment. It's just isn't that simple. His argument for the MacBook Air is that it's in the same form factor, while having incredible battery life and being more powerful computationally. Plus, throw in OS X and you have a deal. In a way Air is netbook inspired in terms of the form factor, and the it killed the netbook by making the point that you could still pack in impressive features into a form factor that small by conventional standards, while having a decent profit margin. In the article, the author makes the point that what really killed the netbook was portable computing (in the form of smart phones and tablets) that packed the same punch and was more intuitive, while maintaining a good enough profit margin for hardware manufacturers to stampede in order to get into the segment. That said, I have a netbook, an Acer Aspire One, and it runs Ubuntu 10.10 with a grin and is quite awesome once you get used to the tiny keyboard... Besides, I really do think that no one is taking real advantage of modern computing and you can still write Ruby code on Pentium 2 era PC once you flash it and boil it down to the basics. I think that if someone is dedicated then even a dumb terminal is enough to write code, why do you need that new found computational power? This really is an honest question.

axiom 15y ago

I'd say what killed it is that for $200 you can buy a decent used 13" laptop, instead of spending $250-300 on a borderline unusable new 10" netbook.

dsmithn 15y ago
It's not even just used laptops anymore. I sold computers for four years at Office Depot and saw the rise of Netbooks. It wasn't long after that that low end traditional laptops started hitting the sub $400 price range during sales and clearance and customers had a lot harder time justifying the smaller size and lower specs.
eftpotrm 15y ago
That assumes price is the only selling point. It isn't for me; I like the extra portability of the smaller machine. It goes to places a 13" wouldn't because it fits in the bag more easily.
rbanffy 15y ago
I'd say the 13" laptop won't kill the 10" netbook at least until it fits in the same space. I carry mine with me much more than I would carry a 13" laptop.

oddthink 15y ago

I just wonder what the author thinks "fatuous" means. What on earth is a "fatuous notebook"? I do keep looking for a good netbook-like solution for recreational coding and writing while traveling. If it can run emacs/gcc/X11 as well as a 1998-era laptop, I'd be satisfied, but I can't quite find anything that's cheap enough for that almost-throw-away use.

dablya 15y ago
What about a used laptop?
- krakensden 15y ago
  They're almost always broken, failing, or have no battery life left (and you can't get replacements). It's much more trouble than it's worth.

tobylane 15y ago

I'm hoping enough people know that there isn't much space between smartphones, tablets ("there isn't a tablet market, there'a an ipad market") and normal laptops. I'm keeping track of how much my mums netbook gets used now she has an iphone, and the work laptop she often went to anyway. It's a bit like drugs for Africa. Do we really need to be able to buy things as cheaply as they do? No, $100, even $400 laptops are silly. I hope so at least, I'm quite big and need space between keyboard and screen.

Wilya 15y ago

Am I the only 'happy' netbook user out there ? I'm still using a 2 year old HP netbook and pretty happy with it. It is light enough that I can actually have it in my bag even when I don't explicitly need it, and largely sufficient for any coding or web stuff. And you can actually work on it. Which isn't true (at least from my point of view) of any smartphone or tablets. The app ecosystem isn't even remotely comparable on that point.

rbanffy 15y ago
No. I am also happy with my first-gen Acer Aspire One.

Ruudjah 15y ago

Android and Chrome will revive the netbook. They are free (as in beer) OSes, and run with very minimal hardware. As such, devices having one of both OSes will be the OLPC replacement. As the third world has either very old or no computer, those cheap devices will flood the market. Netbook formfactor will be part of them, as desktop work will still be needed.

rheide 15y ago

I dare say that the netbook is not dead at all for people who travel a lot. I own an iPad and a very slow (WinXP) netbook myself, but I would prefer the netbook over the iPad for travel any day. At least I have plenty of storage space for my photos on my netbook and I can plug in whatever USB hardware I want.

artmageddon 15y ago
As I said in another comment, I use rail every day to and from work. For coding, the netbook wins hands down. It runs a bare minimum WinXP setup(i.e. no virus scanner or loads of services to start up), so I get done what I need to. I'd much rather use it for photo processing / writing emails etc. also. Of course, once I start needing remote connectivity for work, I'll have to use the iPad.. the netbook battery only lasts around 1.5 hours.

bryanlarsen 15y ago

Nobody killed the netbooks. They aren't dead. http://liliputing.com/2011/06/survey-netbooks-are-just-as-popular-as-tablets-plenty-of-people-dont-care-at-all.html http://liliputing.com/2011/06/survey-netbooks-are-just-as-po... http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/24/0426232/Who-Killed-the-Netbook http://hardware.slashdot.org/story/11/06/24/0426232/Who-Kill...

dorian-graph 15y ago
That's what I was wandering too. While I didn't have any sources to link, as far as my experience at university and in general here a lot of people own netbooks and as an estimate, at least 1/3 of students had netbooks as opposed to laptops. I used one (Samsung N130 or something, a bit old) for the first few weeks before I got a new laptop and loved the size and battery life . .
FilterJoe 15y ago
Agreed. After reading this post, I looked on Amazon and saw that a variety of EEE PC and Samsung netbooks are still for sale in the $200-$400 price range. I also found that around 30 million netbooks are expected to be sold in 2011. Not dead. Given the subject of the post and the amount of detail the author went into, I was disappointed that there was no mention (or links to posts) of any sales numbers. Just the word dead, death, or killed mentioned 12 times.

kleiba 15y ago

I'll tell you the real reason why netbooks are going extinct: because I like them. They're the ideal computing environment for me. And the world is designed in a way that I can never be happy. Sorry, fellow netbook users... When I first heard about netbooks, my jaw dropped metaphorically: this was exactly the kind of device I had been waiting for all these years: small, light, long battery life, GNU/Linux - and cheapo! Heck, I even had this secret fantasy in which netbooks would finally herald GNU/Linux on the desktop (I know, I should have been suspicious right then). I'm not a casual user. I'm a hacker, I spend more time in front of my machine then doing anything else (including sleeping). And yet I like being mobile! I'm not a gamer. I don't watch movies on my computer. My laptop is not a life style product, it's a tool, it's the tool, a Swiss army knife if you will. And let's be honest: you may call a netbook underpowered, but computers have been fast enough already a couple of years ago for almost all serious tasks. Sure, if a compile starts taking too long for my taste, I'll run it remotely on a compute server next time: that's what puts the net in netbook! So I really thought, for once, things went right. I'd never have to spent huge amount of cash on my next laptop again. From now on, it's only going to be netbooks for me. Life is great! Of course, that couldn't last. Did I cheer too loud? Did I dare smile happily in public? I don't know, but somehow the word must have gotten out: "Pssst! Did you hear? Kleiba seems to be happy!" -- "Oh, no worries, we can change that easily..." And the next thing I know, tablets are kicking netbooks' asses... I mean: tablets! What the heck? What am I supposed to be doing with them? Oh, oh, I see, I'm supposed to use all the great "apps". Yeah, well, you know what? I don't care about them. How can I write my own apps? Oh, too bad, for that you need a "real" computer (or be into BDSM)... Sorry for the rant, folks! But are there other fellow hackers on HN who find it ironic that while we are the backbone of the industry, while we are the ones who enable others to use all their beloved tech in the first place, while without us the big companies wouldn't see any dime - that the main stream market doesn't care about us? That we are pushed into a niche, instead of being pulled into the spotlight? (Nah, I'm only being half serious...)

watty 15y ago
Reminds me of the gaming industry where the "hardcore" PC gamers continue to get shafted by exclusive releases to consoles and gimmicky motion controls.

xradionut 15y ago

For some folks, (like my wife and many of her friends), the netbook is the perfect computer. It's light enough to be taken anywhere and powerful enough to fulfill the daily tasks for the casual user. For her, a touch typist, the keyboard is infinitely more useful than a touch screen on a tablet. With a extra 1GB of DRAM, Windows 7 runs well enough that she can use it for almost all her personal needs sans the very few rare tasks, (encoding media or database reporting), that may require the horsepower of my home workstation. With the new hardware in the pipeline, I believe there is still a long life in the netbook model to create a very portable computer with a real keyboard that people will find useful and compelling. I'll probably wouldn't be using it as the main development system, but I don't see a problem having a high battery life, Linux/Windows machine that's easy to lug around. For the creator in me, tablets don't cut it.

athst 15y ago

I think they are giving the OLPC way too much credit for starting the netbook trend. I remember that when it was introduced, one of the main criticisms was that the industry was already making laptops almost that cheap anyway. Onn the other side, they aren't giving near enough credit to the iPad, which was pretty much the sole reason for the fall of netbooks. Netbooks were never good products anyway (especially the OLPC), and while they demonstrated a clear demand for mobile computing in a low price range, they were extremely vulnerable for someone else to come along and create a better option for a similar price. This was the iPad. Look at the chart here: http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/05/netbook-ipad/ http://www.wired.com/gadgetlab/2010/05/netbook-ipad/ Netbooks were already slowing (imho because of just being inferior products) and when the iPad was introduced, it's the last nail in the coffin.

wheels 15y ago

I just ordered my first netbook yesterday. The main feature? It's disposable. My main laptop is a Macbook Pro. It cost €1400. The netbook I ordered cost €136 (used). I have a cheap cell phone because I lose my phone at least once a year. There are situations where I'm uncomfortable dragging along my main expensive laptop because it's major suckage if it get lost / stolen / damaged. The netbook, with its 9.5 hour battery, combined with my mobile broadband (with tethering), makes it fine to throw in the backpack when going camping for the weekend (as I'll be doing next weekend). In a pinch if I need to write a few mails or SSH into a server to check something out, I'm covered. On the other hand, I won't cry very long if the thing gets trashed.

Auguste 15y ago
The fact they are so disposable makes them great for travel or university/school. I've used an Eee PC as a secondary computer ever since they came out about 4 years ago. Do I care if it gets stolen or breaks? Not really. With TrueCrypt and Dropbox, my data is safe and I'm only down ~$300 AUD.
- pasbesoin 15y ago
  If you have to travel in/out of the U.S. or another jurisdiction known for aggressive examination/confiscation, all the more so. Or, just have what you need on a server, buy a netbook at the destination, wipe it and give it to someone when you depart. (Be mindful of the limitations of particularly but not only SSD wipes. Better to start off use with encryption in place; any sacrificed blocks will be useless without the key.) When the prices are low enough, this can be affordable, if not enjoyable. I don't have particular secrets to hide, myself, but I don't like the idea of "gubmint" freely rummaging through whatever it will. And when are data are aggregated, we all have secrets. (E.g. insurance coverage or employment denial because of family medical history or crazy Uncle Joey or whatever.)

tibbon 15y ago

I've got a Windows desktop, Macbook Pro, iPad 2 and iPhone. Netbooks have always seemed like a frustrating compromise. Keyboard just too small for me to comfortably type on (might as well use my iPad), just enough power to actually work properly for me, and yet another item to carry around. I was really close to buying one a few times, and prior to my iPad it made sense I think. Now, less so.

chadgeidel 15y ago
I'm in the same boat - except replace the iPad with a netbook. I figured - why get a "big iPhone" when I can have a real computer with an actual keyboard for half the price? I am sorely tempted to "trade in" the current netbook and Macbook pro for a Sandy Bridge Macbook Air.

eftpotrm 15y ago

Well, I certainly hope that reports of the netbook's death are in fact reports of the death of the netbook's hype... I'm another of those who find them almost perfect devices. It gets used for real, serious, mobile computing. Visual Studio 2010 and SQL Server 2008 R2 on a netbook with a long battery life make a wonderful go-anywhere productivity device and let me work far, far more easily than I could otherwise because it can just slip in the bottom of my bag. I can and do write music on it almost anywhere in a MIDI sequencer. Firefox works well for regular browsing, OpenOffice works well for note taking in meetings. I can touchtype on my netbook with comparable speed and accuracy to any other device, certainly fast enough to take notes live in a presentation. I won't claim it's fast enough for doing any very heavy photography work but it's a very useful portable preview and backing storage device. Give me a tablet with a card reader and decent storage and I could do the photography as easily on that, I'll concede. Give me a good mobile browser and that's pretty much as good as on the netbook, though from my experience with Android Firefox and Chrome I'm not convinced yet. Music? Maybe, I can see it could be done but I'm not sure the apps are there yet from what I've heard. The rest though? You want to show me someone typing at an accurate 100WPM on a tablet without an external keyboard? (By which point I'd rather have them integrated and a bit more rugged, personally.) You want to show me someone doing serious software development on a tablet? Small, light, cheap, compatible. Netbooks are all of these and let me Just Get On With It. Tablets aren't.

rayiner 15y ago

One thing about the Linux point: why buy a computer whose major advantage is portability and battery life, then give up a huge chunk of the latter by putting Linux on it? That's the thing that pissed me off most about my netbook. Windows sucks and I couldn't put Linux on it without its shitty power management cutting a couple of hours off the battery.

ch0wn 15y ago
That's an unfair generalization, especially if you're in control of the hardware used. There are some drivers that certainly drain your battery very quickly (I'm looking at you, Broadcom!), but there are other hardware constellations where Linux has a significantly lower power usage than Windows. It's up to the hardware manufacturers to select the right components.
Auguste 15y ago
When I first got my Eee PC 1000HA two or three years ago, I immediately noticed that it got far better battery life on Windows - about 4 hours, as opposed to 3 on Ubuntu and Arch Linux. That lead me to just stick with Windows XP for a few years. Things seems to have improved now, though. I installed Slackware 13.37 on it about a week ago, and it gets a full 4 hours: david@Fnord ~]$ acpi Battery 0: Discharging, 100%, 04:10:47 remaining [david@Fnord ~]$ uname -a Linux Fnord 2.6.37.6-smp #2 SMP Sat Apr 9 23:39:07 CDT 2011 i686 Intel(R) Atom(TM) CPU N270 @ 1.60GHz GenuineIntel GNU/Linux I'd give Linux another shot on the laptop.

rexreed 15y ago

I disagree with the premise of this article. Netbooks aren't dead. Therefore, no one killed them.

cycojesus 15y ago

It's dying (is it?) because it's slow and not-so-useable. Ok, I just say that because a netbook (Gigabyte Q1000C, 2g of RAM, Atom N470) has been my main personal computing platform for some months now, but boy is it painful! The thing even fails to finish moderately heavy compilation tasks (eg. qemu or gcc). Oh, and it's made of subpar components too, the touchpad doesn't handle even vertical scrolling! There's like 2 non-visible areas tappable/touchable to go up and down... And the keyboard randomly decides that it like the key I last pressed and keeps pressing it for me... That rant passed it must be said that's I'm not a typical user and my wife use her first gen Aspire One like nothing's wrong so maybe it's just me.