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I think if there was a perspective to upgrade to a more modern battery later on, that would make a huge difference for these decisions. I wonder how much the a

I think if there was a perspective to upgrade to a more modern battery later on, that would make a huge difference for these decisions. I wonder how much the actual battery contributes to the production costs. It can't be trivial, right?

axaxs 6y ago
Absolutely. If the battery were easily swappable, either by me or a low cost service center, AND a promise of bigger batteries was made, I'd probably bite. But as it sits, it seems like batteries are very central to the car and rather cost prohibitive to swap out.
- ortusdux 6y ago
  After swearing up and down that they would never do battery swaps, Tesla demonstrated a 90 second swap back in 2012. They held a few events in California to get enough swaps to meet ZEV benchmarks and get nearly $300mil. When they were called out they removed any reference to the program and pretended like it never happened. https://web.archive.org/web/20140331102655/http://www.teslamotors.com/batteryswap https://web.archive.org/web/20140331102655/http://www.teslam... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Controversies
  - munk-a 6y ago
    Battery swaps are incredibly costly for the company - those units generally cost more than 10k - sometimes as high as 20k. Given that they are the majority of the cost of the vehicle it's not a great business proposition for manufacturers to offer to replace a battery for anything less than the majority of the cost of a new vehicle which consumers simply won't go for.
    - freeone3000 6y ago
      You get the uncharged battery back, though, which you can then charge and give to another person. It's like a propane cylinder swap.
      - tln 6y ago
        ...just 500 times more expensive. Propane capacity isn't going to go down as the tanks age; losing 10% when swapping in an older battery could really suck.
- jgalt212 6y ago
  IIRC, when Formula E used to have pit stops, the driver would enter a new car rather than swapping out or charging batteries.
- tonyedgecombe 6y ago
  There are companies upgrading the batteries in early Leafs. This seems to work because the newer model batteries are similar enough that they can be made to work. They aren't re-celling the originals. My guess is as the market grows this will become more common.
Saris 6y ago
>I wonder how much the actual battery contributes to the production costs. It can't be trivial, right? I would think it's a good portion, at say $200 per kWh of battery a 50kWh pack is $10k.

axaxs 6y ago

Absolutely. If the battery were easily swappable, either by me or a low cost service center, AND a promise of bigger batteries was made, I'd probably bite. But as it sits, it seems like batteries are very central to the car and rather cost prohibitive to swap out.

ortusdux 6y ago
After swearing up and down that they would never do battery swaps, Tesla demonstrated a 90 second swap back in 2012. They held a few events in California to get enough swaps to meet ZEV benchmarks and get nearly $300mil. When they were called out they removed any reference to the program and pretended like it never happened. https://web.archive.org/web/20140331102655/http://www.teslamotors.com/batteryswap https://web.archive.org/web/20140331102655/http://www.teslam... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Controversies https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla,_Inc.#Controversies
- munk-a 6y ago
  Battery swaps are incredibly costly for the company - those units generally cost more than 10k - sometimes as high as 20k. Given that they are the majority of the cost of the vehicle it's not a great business proposition for manufacturers to offer to replace a battery for anything less than the majority of the cost of a new vehicle which consumers simply won't go for.
  - freeone3000 6y ago
    You get the uncharged battery back, though, which you can then charge and give to another person. It's like a propane cylinder swap.
    - tln 6y ago
      ...just 500 times more expensive. Propane capacity isn't going to go down as the tanks age; losing 10% when swapping in an older battery could really suck.
jgalt212 6y ago
IIRC, when Formula E used to have pit stops, the driver would enter a new car rather than swapping out or charging batteries.
tonyedgecombe 6y ago
There are companies upgrading the batteries in early Leafs. This seems to work because the newer model batteries are similar enough that they can be made to work. They aren't re-celling the originals. My guess is as the market grows this will become more common.

Saris 6y ago

>I wonder how much the actual battery contributes to the production costs. It can't be trivial, right? I would think it's a good portion, at say $200 per kWh of battery a 50kWh pack is $10k.