6 ms·

Can anyone recommend a succinct "why is mobile safari so bad" article?

kevincox 5y ago
Safari Mobile doesn't implement a lot of features that would make web-apps more powerful. The conspiracy (which I believe) is that this is so that there is no suitable alternative to the app store. The feature list is quite long but one of the most notable ones is the lack of push notification support. There are a large variety of apps (such as messaging apps) that are largely handicapped without notifications.
- falcolas 5y ago
  > The feature list is quite long but one of the most notable ones is the lack of push notification support. Personal opinion: Thank fucking god. I get enough requests for push notifications from websites on the desktop that don't need push notifications that I'm incredibly glad this isn't a feature on Safari (and iOS browsers which skin Safari).
  - benjohnson 5y ago
    I'd be ok with a default deny, but it should be an option for those that want it.
    - kevincox 5y ago
      Exactly. I think it should be default deny for native apps too. But there are a few websites and apps where the notifications are useful.
    - falcolas 5y ago
      If push notifications are that important for your app, take the short amount of time needed to make it a "native" app. There's enough variety in frameworks that should make it stupidly simple to transform a web-app into a "native" app, without relying on adding yet another attention-invasive feature into the browser.
      - raihansaputra 5y ago
        Yes, a solution, but it is not the same. Ex: would you download an app for an airport, or would you rather just scan a qr, load a page, get a notification when it's tine to board, and don't have have an app on your phone again? Same with museums, festivals, concerts, etc. A balance can be struck, but Apple blocks it outright (or even just implement a subset of an API to say they 'support it' while it's unusable (ex: IndexedDb)).
        falcolas 5y ago
        > Ex: would you download an app for an airport, or would you rather just scan a qr, load a page, get a notification when it's tine to board, and don't have have an app on your phone again? Same with museums, festivals, concerts, etc. This is the status quo. And it works well enough for the niche usecases where push notifications may be justified. I myself have Delta and United apps installed, and have for years now. And even they don’t rely on push notifications for the important messages, they send them by SMS. As for museums, festivals, concerts - what’s push really for? “You just looked at painting 1002, want to learn more?” If I did, I’d look them up. And no, there is no balance when it comes to push notifications on the web. For every gmail, there’s hundreds of thousands of Reddits, who bug you for notifications the moment you land on their page. And even gmail is better as an app.
  - vernie 5y ago
    You don't want websites talking to your Bluetooth devices?
phillipseamore 5y ago
Some missing web APIs from mobile Safari that I'd like to get: Media Source Extensions (MSE) [It's available on ipadOS but not iOS, though those device have comparable/same capabilities] Fullscreen API [Just taking the browser to minimal-ui would be enough for me (like it does when you scroll down) - is available on ipadOS] Battery status [Just being able to know that power-saving was on would help, we don't need accuracy, there are a lot of features that get disabled in Safari when it's in that mode] Permissions API [Knowing that the user has already blocked or allowed some restricted APIs so you aren't asking for them again and again] Network Information API/Data saver [Be able to change data usage dependent on network connection] Full Web Audio support [Safari offers no control over audio destinations, as soon as you open the microphone on iOS it will default to only outputting audio through the earpiece and not the speakers so WebRTC calls have horrible audio] Full WebGL support Web NFC/Web Bluetooth - I've got loads of ideas for using them in museum installations but iOS marketshare in my area means I won't even bother doing it just for Android. Then we have various things missing from PWAs: Cache, cookies, storage aren't shared so when a user installs a PWA he needs to re-authenticate. PWAs can't register protocols or domains to move traffic from Safari/other apps to them (e.g. Want to open this with XYZ?), they also can't be targets in Share dialogs etc. Some of these have been available in the Experimental options for Safari on iOS/ipadOS from time to time. Some have even been available in one or two betas before being removed again (MSE was available on iOS for one beta nearly 2 years ago).

Safari Mobile doesn't implement a lot of features that would make web-apps more powerful. The conspiracy (which I believe) is that this is so that there is no suitable alternative to the app store. The feature list is quite long but one of the most notable ones is the lack of push notification support. There are a large variety of apps (such as messaging apps) that are largely handicapped without notifications.

falcolas 5y ago
> The feature list is quite long but one of the most notable ones is the lack of push notification support. Personal opinion: Thank fucking god. I get enough requests for push notifications from websites on the desktop that don't need push notifications that I'm incredibly glad this isn't a feature on Safari (and iOS browsers which skin Safari).
- benjohnson 5y ago
  I'd be ok with a default deny, but it should be an option for those that want it.
  - kevincox 5y ago
    Exactly. I think it should be default deny for native apps too. But there are a few websites and apps where the notifications are useful.
  - falcolas 5y ago
    If push notifications are that important for your app, take the short amount of time needed to make it a "native" app. There's enough variety in frameworks that should make it stupidly simple to transform a web-app into a "native" app, without relying on adding yet another attention-invasive feature into the browser.
    - raihansaputra 5y ago
      Yes, a solution, but it is not the same. Ex: would you download an app for an airport, or would you rather just scan a qr, load a page, get a notification when it's tine to board, and don't have have an app on your phone again? Same with museums, festivals, concerts, etc. A balance can be struck, but Apple blocks it outright (or even just implement a subset of an API to say they 'support it' while it's unusable (ex: IndexedDb)).
      - falcolas 5y ago
        > Ex: would you download an app for an airport, or would you rather just scan a qr, load a page, get a notification when it's tine to board, and don't have have an app on your phone again? Same with museums, festivals, concerts, etc. This is the status quo. And it works well enough for the niche usecases where push notifications may be justified. I myself have Delta and United apps installed, and have for years now. And even they don’t rely on push notifications for the important messages, they send them by SMS. As for museums, festivals, concerts - what’s push really for? “You just looked at painting 1002, want to learn more?” If I did, I’d look them up. And no, there is no balance when it comes to push notifications on the web. For every gmail, there’s hundreds of thousands of Reddits, who bug you for notifications the moment you land on their page. And even gmail is better as an app.
- vernie 5y ago
  You don't want websites talking to your Bluetooth devices?

phillipseamore 5y ago

Some missing web APIs from mobile Safari that I'd like to get: Media Source Extensions (MSE) [It's available on ipadOS but not iOS, though those device have comparable/same capabilities] Fullscreen API [Just taking the browser to minimal-ui would be enough for me (like it does when you scroll down) - is available on ipadOS] Battery status [Just being able to know that power-saving was on would help, we don't need accuracy, there are a lot of features that get disabled in Safari when it's in that mode] Permissions API [Knowing that the user has already blocked or allowed some restricted APIs so you aren't asking for them again and again] Network Information API/Data saver [Be able to change data usage dependent on network connection] Full Web Audio support [Safari offers no control over audio destinations, as soon as you open the microphone on iOS it will default to only outputting audio through the earpiece and not the speakers so WebRTC calls have horrible audio] Full WebGL support Web NFC/Web Bluetooth - I've got loads of ideas for using them in museum installations but iOS marketshare in my area means I won't even bother doing it just for Android. Then we have various things missing from PWAs: Cache, cookies, storage aren't shared so when a user installs a PWA he needs to re-authenticate. PWAs can't register protocols or domains to move traffic from Safari/other apps to them (e.g. Want to open this with XYZ?), they also can't be targets in Share dialogs etc. Some of these have been available in the Experimental options for Safari on iOS/ipadOS from time to time. Some have even been available in one or two betas before being removed again (MSE was available on iOS for one beta nearly 2 years ago).