4 ms·

I literally bought many hundreds of used CDs and had them shipped to https://murfie.com/ https://murfie.com/ to rip for me and give me FLACs automatically, beca

by lrvick 6y ago

I literally bought many hundreds of used CDs and had them shipped to https://murfie.com/ https://murfie.com/ to rip for me and give me FLACs automatically, because that was the only way to get lossless drm-free music I wanted legally. I even wrote a python library to automate the process since I had so much music I wanted to obtain legally that I needed bulk access. I spent thousands of dollars and many hours trying to play by the rules on this project. A: The artist got nothing. CDs were mostly used, and the artists are often no longer alive. B: Murfie went out of business and can't even afford to sort and return my discs to me. I can't prove I own my own music if challenged. It is all unsorted in a warehouse in the midwest somewhere. Am I a criminal now anyway after all that work? How many others would go that far to get a legal DRM-free music collection? In the end I still got screwed. If I could just download DRM-free music/movies/games directly, take my money. Since that is usually not a thing, what other options do people that want freedom and privacy have?

RandallBrown 6y ago
> Am I a criminal now anyway after all that work? You legally purchased the music and legally made backup copies of it. You are not a criminal. > I can't prove I own my own music if challenged I don't think that matters. Someone would need to prove you stole it, which they can't do since you didn't.
- FireBeyond 6y ago
  > I don't think that matters. Someone would need to prove you stole it, which they can't do since you didn't. Welcome to the civil law world, where they don't need to prove that at all, they just need to ask "on the balance of probabilities, is it more likely than not that a violation happened here?". Unfortunately, for many, juries, and even judges, the mere assertion thereof by a corporation, even if backed by scant or contradictory evidence, is enough for them to say, "that's reasonable".
  - criley2 6y ago
    While the standard is lower in civil law than criminal law, this isn't how it works at all. The rightsholder does not want to fight you in court because the amount of money you can pay (most likely) is less than what they have to pay in legal fees to hire these guys to come after you. The era of mass lawsuits ended like 10+ years ago. It was a hallmark of the 2000's. These days, rightsholders do the settlement fishing where they get enough data to subpoena your identity from your ISP, then send you settlement offers. They don't want you to show up in court, they want to spook you and get you to give them $1000 or something to make it go away.
eutropia 6y ago
I doubt the piracy moralist you replied to will respond with an apology for calling you a thief and a criminal; but I really appreciate that you explained your situation. It's unreasonable to lump all people who pirate media into some cesspool of common criminality -- each use-case is different. Sure, there are people who aggressively collect more pirated content than they could ever hope to personally consume and refuse to pay for any media; but there are also people who want a secondary copy of something they've already purchased, or who can't even legally buy the media that they'd want access to in the first place. Easier to just vilify a strawman (for what reason, even?), I guess.
- passivate 6y ago
  That goes to a deeper philosophical question on social contract theory. There are laws that I may not agree with. I may chose to break them out of protest or civil-disobedience - but then I can't also claim immunity from the state's action when they uphold the laws.
passivate 6y ago
You took a risk on a business (murfie) when you sent them your property. Sometimes, the risk materializes, and that was unfortunately the case for you. You will have to utilize the legal system to retrieve your property, just like every other person. >If I could just download DRM-free music/movies/games directly, take my money. Since that is usually not a thing, what other options do people that want freedom and privacy have? When you pirate copyrighted content, you're sending a strong signal - that there is demand for that content. Rather, you may want to consider rewarding creators who release their works under a license you agree with. An aggregate effect could potentially trigger an industry shift away from DRM. As it stands, it may be that your favorite creators are not in that list, but that is just the reality of the current situation. >In the end I still got screwed. When people point out that the creator got screwed when people download Avengers or Game of Thrones, others are quick to point out that they would never have paid for the content. Its all about context and perspective! :)
criley2 6y ago
>Since that is usually not a thing, what other options do people that want freedom and privacy have? A realization that your desire to access music and content with freedom and privacy DOES NOT SUPERSEDE the creators right to profit from their work. Look at where you are -- do the people in this community deserve to be paid for their code? Or can you take it from them if their feelings about privacy and freedom do not match yours perfectly? I could say, I want bread but I don't want to contribute to capitalism, what option do I have? I'll just take. This isn't how we run our society. It's not how good people behave. If you cannot abide by the authors/owners wishes, then you must set aside the entitlement you feel towards their work and simply move on without it.

by lrvick 6y ago

RandallBrown 6y ago

> Am I a criminal now anyway after all that work? You legally purchased the music and legally made backup copies of it. You are not a criminal. > I can't prove I own my own music if challenged I don't think that matters. Someone would need to prove you stole it, which they can't do since you didn't.

FireBeyond 6y ago
> I don't think that matters. Someone would need to prove you stole it, which they can't do since you didn't. Welcome to the civil law world, where they don't need to prove that at all, they just need to ask "on the balance of probabilities, is it more likely than not that a violation happened here?". Unfortunately, for many, juries, and even judges, the mere assertion thereof by a corporation, even if backed by scant or contradictory evidence, is enough for them to say, "that's reasonable".
- criley2 6y ago
  While the standard is lower in civil law than criminal law, this isn't how it works at all. The rightsholder does not want to fight you in court because the amount of money you can pay (most likely) is less than what they have to pay in legal fees to hire these guys to come after you. The era of mass lawsuits ended like 10+ years ago. It was a hallmark of the 2000's. These days, rightsholders do the settlement fishing where they get enough data to subpoena your identity from your ISP, then send you settlement offers. They don't want you to show up in court, they want to spook you and get you to give them $1000 or something to make it go away.

eutropia 6y ago

I doubt the piracy moralist you replied to will respond with an apology for calling you a thief and a criminal; but I really appreciate that you explained your situation. It's unreasonable to lump all people who pirate media into some cesspool of common criminality -- each use-case is different. Sure, there are people who aggressively collect more pirated content than they could ever hope to personally consume and refuse to pay for any media; but there are also people who want a secondary copy of something they've already purchased, or who can't even legally buy the media that they'd want access to in the first place. Easier to just vilify a strawman (for what reason, even?), I guess.

passivate 6y ago
That goes to a deeper philosophical question on social contract theory. There are laws that I may not agree with. I may chose to break them out of protest or civil-disobedience - but then I can't also claim immunity from the state's action when they uphold the laws.

passivate 6y ago

You took a risk on a business (murfie) when you sent them your property. Sometimes, the risk materializes, and that was unfortunately the case for you. You will have to utilize the legal system to retrieve your property, just like every other person. >If I could just download DRM-free music/movies/games directly, take my money. Since that is usually not a thing, what other options do people that want freedom and privacy have? When you pirate copyrighted content, you're sending a strong signal - that there is demand for that content. Rather, you may want to consider rewarding creators who release their works under a license you agree with. An aggregate effect could potentially trigger an industry shift away from DRM. As it stands, it may be that your favorite creators are not in that list, but that is just the reality of the current situation. >In the end I still got screwed. When people point out that the creator got screwed when people download Avengers or Game of Thrones, others are quick to point out that they would never have paid for the content. Its all about context and perspective! :)

criley2 6y ago

>Since that is usually not a thing, what other options do people that want freedom and privacy have? A realization that your desire to access music and content with freedom and privacy DOES NOT SUPERSEDE the creators right to profit from their work. Look at where you are -- do the people in this community deserve to be paid for their code? Or can you take it from them if their feelings about privacy and freedom do not match yours perfectly? I could say, I want bread but I don't want to contribute to capitalism, what option do I have? I'll just take. This isn't how we run our society. It's not how good people behave. If you cannot abide by the authors/owners wishes, then you must set aside the entitlement you feel towards their work and simply move on without it.