6 ms·

I tend to fully agree with the thesis. Sadly, there's nothing to return to, so I am condemned to live in a current barren wasteland of modernity.

seandoe 5y ago
I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. It's a shame we choose to focus on our subtle differences to intentionally divide ourselves.
- Minor49er 5y ago
  According to the article, we are quite the opposite from being blessed, and are more disconnected now than ever before
  - agumonkey 5y ago
    It's a paradox of knowledge Vs knowing or know-how.
- burntoutfire 5y ago
  > I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. We are mostly connected to each other via sanitized business transactions. Meanwhile, we don't even know the names of most of our neighbors.
  - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
    Not knowing one's neighbours may seem like a problem to you, but it can be a great thing for others. So many young people who move from close-knit small towns or villages to big cities (especially, but not only, sexual minorities), find it liberating that no one is scrutinizing their lifestyles like back home. Also, countries like Finland manage to be high-trust and relatively homogeneous societies, while at the same time having strong expectations for privacy in a block of flats, where neighbours might find it uncomfortable and intrusive if you tried to interact with them.
    - burntoutfire 5y ago
      People used to depend on neighbors - for example, they helped each other on their farms on a regular basis. Now it's no longer the case and perhaps the dynamics you're describing is the worst of both worlds, where the actual economical need for rich and frequent interactions with neighbors is gone and everything that's left is the nosiness. But, this itself is a result of modernity compartmentalizing people to the degree where they practically never need help from their neighbors.
      - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
        But if you live in a successful welfare state, what need have you for help from your neighbours? The welfare state might help you even better, as it can benefit from economies of scale, and it will not demand anything in return from you except, once you are working a normal job, your taxes. Also, depictions of pre-welfare-state help from neighbours often underscore how that help was always conditional: sexual and racial minorities, women with children out of wedlock, people not members of the locally dominant church or political wing, etc. often found their pleas for help rejected.
        vixen99 5y ago
        The successful welfare state is the product of your neighbours who tacitly agree to maintain society in many ways including of course paying for it. It's a mistake to suppose that that stance is a given in perpetuity.
        Mediterraneo10 5y ago
        Definitely, but the point is that society found a way for neighbours to assist each other, without requiring individual neighbours to know (and carefully maintain friendships with) their individual neighbours. Of course support for this model could possibly weaken over time, but I think many people find the welfare state superior to the old way that took more effort and would only benefit you if you conformed to expectations.
        5y ago
- totetsu 5y ago
  This loud obnoxious Chicago Italian botanist youtuber often makes that point eloquently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTsAFpSXj7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTsAFpSXj7Y
- kergonath 5y ago
  We are not deeply connected to the natural world at all. Otherwise we’d have panicked about the mass extinction we are causing already and we’d do more than talking about addressing climate change. We are profiting off nature, turning it into a domesticated version we hope will be sustainable (but have no proof it will be, quite the contrary). And yet it’s true that we never understood the world around us so well. This is fantastic if you are interested in sciences. Overwhelming evidence shows that most people don’t care.
  - ceilingcorner 5y ago
    You have misunderstood the word connected. The parent commenter meant that we are intertwined with nature, not that we are responsible caretakers.
    - kergonath 5y ago
      Oh right. I interpreted it as connected on an emotional level. Also, I might be a bit bitter about the whole situation. In any case, connected or not, nature is about to give us a good kicking.
kingsuper20 5y ago
I think it's time to turn your view locally. Barring larger disasters, the rest of the world is mostly a simplified model viewed through a computer screen or TV. Given the current social direction and inertia, maybe it's best for people to begin channeling their own Saint Leibowitz.

seandoe 5y ago

I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. It's a shame we choose to focus on our subtle differences to intentionally divide ourselves.

Minor49er 5y ago
According to the article, we are quite the opposite from being blessed, and are more disconnected now than ever before
- agumonkey 5y ago
  It's a paradox of knowledge Vs knowing or know-how.
burntoutfire 5y ago
> I think we're blessed to live in a time where we have such a plethora of scientific knowledge that shows how deeply connected we are to the natural world and each other. We are mostly connected to each other via sanitized business transactions. Meanwhile, we don't even know the names of most of our neighbors.
- Mediterraneo10 5y ago
  Not knowing one's neighbours may seem like a problem to you, but it can be a great thing for others. So many young people who move from close-knit small towns or villages to big cities (especially, but not only, sexual minorities), find it liberating that no one is scrutinizing their lifestyles like back home. Also, countries like Finland manage to be high-trust and relatively homogeneous societies, while at the same time having strong expectations for privacy in a block of flats, where neighbours might find it uncomfortable and intrusive if you tried to interact with them.
  - burntoutfire 5y ago
    People used to depend on neighbors - for example, they helped each other on their farms on a regular basis. Now it's no longer the case and perhaps the dynamics you're describing is the worst of both worlds, where the actual economical need for rich and frequent interactions with neighbors is gone and everything that's left is the nosiness. But, this itself is a result of modernity compartmentalizing people to the degree where they practically never need help from their neighbors.
    - Mediterraneo10 5y ago
      But if you live in a successful welfare state, what need have you for help from your neighbours? The welfare state might help you even better, as it can benefit from economies of scale, and it will not demand anything in return from you except, once you are working a normal job, your taxes. Also, depictions of pre-welfare-state help from neighbours often underscore how that help was always conditional: sexual and racial minorities, women with children out of wedlock, people not members of the locally dominant church or political wing, etc. often found their pleas for help rejected.
      - vixen99 5y ago
        The successful welfare state is the product of your neighbours who tacitly agree to maintain society in many ways including of course paying for it. It's a mistake to suppose that that stance is a given in perpetuity.
        Mediterraneo10 5y ago
        Definitely, but the point is that society found a way for neighbours to assist each other, without requiring individual neighbours to know (and carefully maintain friendships with) their individual neighbours. Of course support for this model could possibly weaken over time, but I think many people find the welfare state superior to the old way that took more effort and would only benefit you if you conformed to expectations.
      - 5y ago
totetsu 5y ago
This loud obnoxious Chicago Italian botanist youtuber often makes that point eloquently https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTsAFpSXj7Y https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MTsAFpSXj7Y
kergonath 5y ago
We are not deeply connected to the natural world at all. Otherwise we’d have panicked about the mass extinction we are causing already and we’d do more than talking about addressing climate change. We are profiting off nature, turning it into a domesticated version we hope will be sustainable (but have no proof it will be, quite the contrary). And yet it’s true that we never understood the world around us so well. This is fantastic if you are interested in sciences. Overwhelming evidence shows that most people don’t care.
- ceilingcorner 5y ago
  You have misunderstood the word connected. The parent commenter meant that we are intertwined with nature, not that we are responsible caretakers.
  - kergonath 5y ago
    Oh right. I interpreted it as connected on an emotional level. Also, I might be a bit bitter about the whole situation. In any case, connected or not, nature is about to give us a good kicking.

kingsuper20 5y ago

I think it's time to turn your view locally. Barring larger disasters, the rest of the world is mostly a simplified model viewed through a computer screen or TV. Given the current social direction and inertia, maybe it's best for people to begin channeling their own Saint Leibowitz.