4 ms·

I don't care, I want to use it not dev in it. If the people working for free to give me FOSS are happy with this stack, more power to them. No complaining.

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
Do you use the same argument when purchasing consumer products from shady countries which abuse workers? "I only want to use it, I don't want to produce it"? We shouldn't support bad things by giving them publicity through using them. The least harm it will cause is disincentivizing someone else from creating something better, which is annoying enough already.
- BiteCode_dev 6y ago
  Comparing people taste in language with slavery. That's... bold.
  - eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
    Google doesn't pay anyone for the billions of recaptchas they force Internet users to solve for free - to then profit off by using them to train their AI which leaks into nobody-knows-how-many products. So I think it's pretty fine to put them into the bucket of entities which benefit from forced labor. They merely don't coax people into it by physical force but rather by locking them out of most of the Internet if they don't comply.
    - StandardFuture 6y ago
      Very valid points about recaptchas. Now, what does that have to do with the Go programming language that is FOSS? Or are you calling for developers to essentially put restrictive sanctions on any and all Google products/projects? And if so, are you actually holding yourself to the same standard? Never using a recaptcha? Never visiting a site that uses Google Analytics? Never watching a YouTube video? Never using a device which runs the Android operating system? etc., etc.? Because you seem to be demanding such a standard from the rest of us.
      - eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
        > Or are you calling for developers to essentially put restrictive sanctions on any and all Google products/projects? Yes. > And if so, are you actually holding yourself to the same standard? Never using a recaptcha? Never visiting a site that uses Google Analytics? Never watching a YouTube video? Never using a device which runs the Android operating system? etc., etc.? I intentionally enter a large percentage of invalid data into recaptchas to spoil their dataset. Google Analytics is blocked by my ad blocker. Same goes for ads on youtube. With regards to using their stuff, I don't demand anyone should stop privately using it if they need it. You just shouldn't encourage any further people to use Google stuff by filling their ecosystem with more new software.
        StandardFuture 6y ago
        > I intentionally enter a large percentage of invalid data into recaptchas to spoil their dataset. So do a few others. You are easily selected out as anomalous data, just fyi. > Google Analytics is blocked by my ad blocker. Great. Are you also blocking Google Fonts? Are you sure that Google is not hosting anything you are touching on a website? > Same goes for ads on youtube. But advertisers pay YouTube based on the viewership reputation of YouTube. You are merely providing a reduced amount of value to Google in this way. > You just shouldn't encourage any further people to use Google stuff by filling their ecosystem with more new software. Very honest question: Do you think you would have actually said this same thing about the C programming language in the 70s, 80s? Maybe you would have. All in all, I am not sure that your stance justifies writing no code in Go which provides less value to Google's bottomline than even Google Fonts. Perhaps some advertiser somewhere in the tech industry benefits from Google's public-facing Go packages proxy data for reaching a developer audience to sell to? Who knows? But, developers can turn that off and/or use self-hosted proxies. Also, lone wolf retaliation is fine but not nearly as effective as just running for political office and being anti-Google.
- Hammershaft 6y ago
  > Do you use the same argument when purchasing consumer products from shady countries which abuse workers? This analogy makes no sense. You are comparing a product made through coercion and abuse of workers to a product willingly made with tools that you happen to have differing preferences on.
  - eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
    My point is NOT that Go would be made primarily through forced labor (although usage of money earned through the yield of the forced labor from ReCaptcha is rather likely). My point is that Google is an evil company, and we shouldn't support evil entities by using their stuff. And to make that point apparent, I mentioned other instances where people would think it is pretty obvious that "producer is evil = don't use their stuff", hoping that you would see there is no reason to act any different on Google just because they produce products which are of a type different from those that evil entities normal produce. Because it really doesn't matter whether it is software or clothes or diamonds, if you use something publicly of someone you support them, and Google should not be supported.

eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago

Do you use the same argument when purchasing consumer products from shady countries which abuse workers? "I only want to use it, I don't want to produce it"? We shouldn't support bad things by giving them publicity through using them. The least harm it will cause is disincentivizing someone else from creating something better, which is annoying enough already.

BiteCode_dev 6y ago
Comparing people taste in language with slavery. That's... bold.
- eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
  Google doesn't pay anyone for the billions of recaptchas they force Internet users to solve for free - to then profit off by using them to train their AI which leaks into nobody-knows-how-many products. So I think it's pretty fine to put them into the bucket of entities which benefit from forced labor. They merely don't coax people into it by physical force but rather by locking them out of most of the Internet if they don't comply.
  - StandardFuture 6y ago
    Very valid points about recaptchas. Now, what does that have to do with the Go programming language that is FOSS? Or are you calling for developers to essentially put restrictive sanctions on any and all Google products/projects? And if so, are you actually holding yourself to the same standard? Never using a recaptcha? Never visiting a site that uses Google Analytics? Never watching a YouTube video? Never using a device which runs the Android operating system? etc., etc.? Because you seem to be demanding such a standard from the rest of us.
    - eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
      > Or are you calling for developers to essentially put restrictive sanctions on any and all Google products/projects? Yes. > And if so, are you actually holding yourself to the same standard? Never using a recaptcha? Never visiting a site that uses Google Analytics? Never watching a YouTube video? Never using a device which runs the Android operating system? etc., etc.? I intentionally enter a large percentage of invalid data into recaptchas to spoil their dataset. Google Analytics is blocked by my ad blocker. Same goes for ads on youtube. With regards to using their stuff, I don't demand anyone should stop privately using it if they need it. You just shouldn't encourage any further people to use Google stuff by filling their ecosystem with more new software.
      - StandardFuture 6y ago
        > I intentionally enter a large percentage of invalid data into recaptchas to spoil their dataset. So do a few others. You are easily selected out as anomalous data, just fyi. > Google Analytics is blocked by my ad blocker. Great. Are you also blocking Google Fonts? Are you sure that Google is not hosting anything you are touching on a website? > Same goes for ads on youtube. But advertisers pay YouTube based on the viewership reputation of YouTube. You are merely providing a reduced amount of value to Google in this way. > You just shouldn't encourage any further people to use Google stuff by filling their ecosystem with more new software. Very honest question: Do you think you would have actually said this same thing about the C programming language in the 70s, 80s? Maybe you would have. All in all, I am not sure that your stance justifies writing no code in Go which provides less value to Google's bottomline than even Google Fonts. Perhaps some advertiser somewhere in the tech industry benefits from Google's public-facing Go packages proxy data for reaching a developer audience to sell to? Who knows? But, developers can turn that off and/or use self-hosted proxies. Also, lone wolf retaliation is fine but not nearly as effective as just running for political office and being anti-Google.
Hammershaft 6y ago
> Do you use the same argument when purchasing consumer products from shady countries which abuse workers? This analogy makes no sense. You are comparing a product made through coercion and abuse of workers to a product willingly made with tools that you happen to have differing preferences on.
- eMGm4D0zgUAVXc7 6y ago
  My point is NOT that Go would be made primarily through forced labor (although usage of money earned through the yield of the forced labor from ReCaptcha is rather likely). My point is that Google is an evil company, and we shouldn't support evil entities by using their stuff. And to make that point apparent, I mentioned other instances where people would think it is pretty obvious that "producer is evil = don't use their stuff", hoping that you would see there is no reason to act any different on Google just because they produce products which are of a type different from those that evil entities normal produce. Because it really doesn't matter whether it is software or clothes or diamonds, if you use something publicly of someone you support them, and Google should not be supported.