5 ms·

The dynamics of this is quite fascinating. As a startup, figuring out what your product actually is - what is it your customers _actually_ pay for - can be chal

The dynamics of this is quite fascinating. As a startup, figuring out what your product actually is - what is it your customers _actually_ pay for - can be challenging. Clearly, it's the same for football clubs that's been around for decades. They seem to have forgotten what their fans like about them. What they pay for. That's an expensive mistake for any company.

Clewza313 5y ago
I don't think the local fans really made a difference here. All the Super League teams are global franchises, and it was the threats from broadcasters (who they depend on for revenue) and governments that torpedoed the projects.
- erikstarck 5y ago
  Yeah, well, that's where the fascinating dynamics kick in. The "customers" for the clubs are of many different kinds. The sponsors are one, the broadcasters another. The list is long and they are connected with each other in a complex web. But at the end of they day, if the fans are gone nothing else remains.
  - hkt 5y ago
    Football in the UK can be quite political at times, especially around issues of ownership and regulation. There is a set of elections coming up in May and this was probably why the UK's prime minister threatened to use a "legislative bomb". Football fans are also voters, after all, and even people who don't watch the sport don't want bad things to happen to it.
    - thom 5y ago
      I am not sure we have all the information yet, it seems entirely possible that Boris Johnson and Ed Woodward’s meeting in the run up to the announcement was to ensure the government were on side.
- hakfoo 5y ago
  I wonder if there's a different "customer development" process you get with multiple leagues. Being American, I'd tend to think about minor league baseball as comparison. You put a team in every whistle-stop town, with $5-10 tickets and "free bat night". Families could attend several games a year and the kids grow up with baseball as part of their life. Maybe once or twice they go to a big league game at $200 per seat. Similarly, you've got people whose families who have supported the same third-division football team through generations of direct attendance. A sport with major leagues only has a very different model for building relationships with a new generations of fans. It's something they're really only experiencing through TV, and I wonder if that will have the same degree of customer connection. It works for the NFL and NBA but they're much more telegenic games than baseball is.
  - maweki 5y ago
    In Europe there are minor (regional) leagues all the way down to the city level. Most cost maybe 2 to 5 euro to attend. But they are all within the same football governing body and you can climb these leagues up to the Bundesliga or premier league or whatever.
    - tshanmu 5y ago
      That's the aspiration. But reality is very different. The interesting aspect was when the that reality was being called out, everyone rebelled!!
      - riffraff 5y ago
        the thing people seem to have forgotten is that reality _was_ different until 20 years ago, when the powerful clubs pushed for the creation of the Champions League, then for unbalanced dividends that rewarded the already powerful, then killed the Cup Winner's Cup. In the '80/90s the Champion's Cup was won by Red Star Belgrade, Porto, Hamburg, Steaua Bucarest, Aston Villa, Olympique Marseille, Ajax, PSV etc in addendum do the "big ones". Then the big clubs bullied the UEFA and the local leagues into giving them more and more money in proportion, and changing the rules so they'd basically never be excluded. This latest attempt is just another step towards a future where the reality of the small team getting to the top needs to be completely erased in the interest of the big teams.
- gorgoiler 5y ago
  But certainly the government wouldn’t get involved unless they thought there might be a vote or two in it for them.
  - edjw 5y ago
    This is campaigning. You show decision-makers why they should make the decision you want them to and sometimes that includes playing into the decision-maker’s self-interest.
- Closi 5y ago
  Eh, I think it will have had something to do with it - instant boycotts were happening for all involved teams in the U.K. by many of their fans.
- thom 5y ago
  Profit margins in football (where profits exist at all) are nowhere near large enough to suffer interruptions to either broadcast _or_ match day revenue, so I don’t think this is an either/or thing.
- username90 5y ago
  Governments represents local fans.
estomagordo 5y ago
They haven't really "forgotten" in the traditional sense. It is more a case of the present leadership of billionaire investors breaking the hundred-year lineage and representing a new, tone-deaf and usurped versions of the clubs.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]

Clewza313 5y ago

I don't think the local fans really made a difference here. All the Super League teams are global franchises, and it was the threats from broadcasters (who they depend on for revenue) and governments that torpedoed the projects.

erikstarck 5y ago
Yeah, well, that's where the fascinating dynamics kick in. The "customers" for the clubs are of many different kinds. The sponsors are one, the broadcasters another. The list is long and they are connected with each other in a complex web. But at the end of they day, if the fans are gone nothing else remains.
- hkt 5y ago
  Football in the UK can be quite political at times, especially around issues of ownership and regulation. There is a set of elections coming up in May and this was probably why the UK's prime minister threatened to use a "legislative bomb". Football fans are also voters, after all, and even people who don't watch the sport don't want bad things to happen to it.
  - thom 5y ago
    I am not sure we have all the information yet, it seems entirely possible that Boris Johnson and Ed Woodward’s meeting in the run up to the announcement was to ensure the government were on side.
hakfoo 5y ago
I wonder if there's a different "customer development" process you get with multiple leagues. Being American, I'd tend to think about minor league baseball as comparison. You put a team in every whistle-stop town, with $5-10 tickets and "free bat night". Families could attend several games a year and the kids grow up with baseball as part of their life. Maybe once or twice they go to a big league game at $200 per seat. Similarly, you've got people whose families who have supported the same third-division football team through generations of direct attendance. A sport with major leagues only has a very different model for building relationships with a new generations of fans. It's something they're really only experiencing through TV, and I wonder if that will have the same degree of customer connection. It works for the NFL and NBA but they're much more telegenic games than baseball is.
- maweki 5y ago
  In Europe there are minor (regional) leagues all the way down to the city level. Most cost maybe 2 to 5 euro to attend. But they are all within the same football governing body and you can climb these leagues up to the Bundesliga or premier league or whatever.
  - tshanmu 5y ago
    That's the aspiration. But reality is very different. The interesting aspect was when the that reality was being called out, everyone rebelled!!
    - riffraff 5y ago
      the thing people seem to have forgotten is that reality _was_ different until 20 years ago, when the powerful clubs pushed for the creation of the Champions League, then for unbalanced dividends that rewarded the already powerful, then killed the Cup Winner's Cup. In the '80/90s the Champion's Cup was won by Red Star Belgrade, Porto, Hamburg, Steaua Bucarest, Aston Villa, Olympique Marseille, Ajax, PSV etc in addendum do the "big ones". Then the big clubs bullied the UEFA and the local leagues into giving them more and more money in proportion, and changing the rules so they'd basically never be excluded. This latest attempt is just another step towards a future where the reality of the small team getting to the top needs to be completely erased in the interest of the big teams.
gorgoiler 5y ago
But certainly the government wouldn’t get involved unless they thought there might be a vote or two in it for them.
- edjw 5y ago
  This is campaigning. You show decision-makers why they should make the decision you want them to and sometimes that includes playing into the decision-maker’s self-interest.
Closi 5y ago
Eh, I think it will have had something to do with it - instant boycotts were happening for all involved teams in the U.K. by many of their fans.
thom 5y ago
Profit margins in football (where profits exist at all) are nowhere near large enough to suffer interruptions to either broadcast _or_ match day revenue, so I don’t think this is an either/or thing.
username90 5y ago
Governments represents local fans.

estomagordo 5y ago

They haven't really "forgotten" in the traditional sense. It is more a case of the present leadership of billionaire investors breaking the hundred-year lineage and representing a new, tone-deaf and usurped versions of the clubs.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]