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> The headless editor framework for web artisans. This sounds like a parody. What does "headless" mean in this context? It clearly has an interface, so it's

by mkl 6y ago

> The headless editor framework for web artisans. This sounds like a parody. What does "headless" mean in this context? It clearly has an interface, so it's not like a headless browser. Edit: I got the styling link to load now. They just mean no CSS. And what distinguishes a "web artisan" from a person who types? Edit: oh I think the web artisan is just the web developer who uses this on their page, not the person who uses the editor. For a headline it doesn't seem to communicate well.

gls2ro 6y ago
I wish people will stop using headless in all kind of contexts. It does not help understanding how the project works. What is headless? Who come in this case CSS is a "head"? I would say HTML is the head.
- tobr 6y ago
  In the context of UI components it has taken on the connotation that it mainly handles interactivity, state, performance, accessibility, cross-platform support and similar functional aspects, while leaving decisions about the visual design to you. EDIT: And it does allow you to customize both styling and markup, as far as I understand.
  - nightowl_games 6y ago
    I've read your post and the parent several times and I still can't understand what you mean by "it".
    - tobr 6y ago
      First “it” = the term “headless” Second “it” = the UI component branding itself as “headless” Third “it” = tiptap
hanspagel 6y ago
Hi, co-creator of tiptap here and the one who wrote the heading: We went with “renderless” for tiptap v1, but this is not really correct and a lot of people switched to “headless”. Give me a better word that’s know to more people, I’d love to change it! With web artisans I wanted to point out it’s for people who really care about every detail. If you just want to slap in an editor and that’s it: tiptap is not for you. If you want to really customize every aspect of the editor: You should definitely consider using tiptap. Edit: typo
- nightowl_games 6y ago
  "Styleless" Headless means a command line program without a GUI.
  - bitwize 6y ago
    Back in my day, "headless" meant a computer without a monitor, for example a server or a PC that had been repurposed to server duty. We also had the opposite: before Xrandr or Xinerama, there was an older X feature called "Zaphod Mode" that allowed you to drive a graphics card's multiple outputs (on cards that supported such) mapping each to a different X "screen", Zaphod Beeblebrox, of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, had two heads, you see.
    - m3ta4a 6y ago
      "Headless" can also refer to a browser that doesn't render to the screen, useful for automated integration tests.
  - hanspagel 6y ago
    Then it’s styleless and markupless (that’s not a word, is it?), too.
  - gman83 6y ago
    Yeah I think the Jamstack folks have decided to use headless in an entirely different way. For example search for headless CMS you'll find loads of CMSs that just run on a server and use an API to talk to the client, but they're just web pages. It just means not WordPress I think in this context.
philippkuehn 6y ago
The term "headless" is widely known in the React world for components where I have full control over markup and styling. In the Vue world, this is usually called "renderless". We have then decided to use the term "headless".
trymas 6y ago
> > The headless editor framework for web artisans. > This sounds like a parody. Don't forget the classic: > Made with ♥
- hanspagel 6y ago
  What’s wrong with “Made with Love”?
  - bshimmin 6y ago
    It's a cliché and it's meaningless - it's not like you see "Made with hate" or "Made with indifference (but at least it covered my mortgage payments)".
    - hanspagel 6y ago
      Maybe it’s just not too often that people invest a few 1,000 unpaid hours in an open source project motivated by hate, I don’t know. We’ll consider to find something more meaningful than love for the footer message.
      - philipswood 6y ago
        "Made with passion", and "Made with dedication" Both don't have Unicode emoticons. Nothing wrong with: "Made with ♡" Awesome thing about advice and criticism - you can decide to ignore it. Do "Made for the ♡ of (unicorn emoticon)" if it floats your boat. This is a common signal for "I care about my [front-end] work."
  - trymas 6y ago
    Absolutely nothing's wrong with it, but it's just am addition to parent comment on how funny some phrases sound like. Anyone can write whatever they want and name their projects however they want. "Fastest standalone headless framework. Powered by AI. Written in TypeScript, coded with love in San Francisco Bay, by @kode_ninja using VSCode." I write this with no offence. Just always have a chuckle while reading phrases like parent commenter and I commented on. :)

by mkl 6y ago

gls2ro 6y ago

I wish people will stop using headless in all kind of contexts. It does not help understanding how the project works. What is headless? Who come in this case CSS is a "head"? I would say HTML is the head.

tobr 6y ago
In the context of UI components it has taken on the connotation that it mainly handles interactivity, state, performance, accessibility, cross-platform support and similar functional aspects, while leaving decisions about the visual design to you. EDIT: And it does allow you to customize both styling and markup, as far as I understand.
- nightowl_games 6y ago
  I've read your post and the parent several times and I still can't understand what you mean by "it".
  - tobr 6y ago
    First “it” = the term “headless” Second “it” = the UI component branding itself as “headless” Third “it” = tiptap

hanspagel 6y ago

Hi, co-creator of tiptap here and the one who wrote the heading: We went with “renderless” for tiptap v1, but this is not really correct and a lot of people switched to “headless”. Give me a better word that’s know to more people, I’d love to change it! With web artisans I wanted to point out it’s for people who really care about every detail. If you just want to slap in an editor and that’s it: tiptap is not for you. If you want to really customize every aspect of the editor: You should definitely consider using tiptap. Edit: typo

nightowl_games 6y ago
"Styleless" Headless means a command line program without a GUI.
- bitwize 6y ago
  Back in my day, "headless" meant a computer without a monitor, for example a server or a PC that had been repurposed to server duty. We also had the opposite: before Xrandr or Xinerama, there was an older X feature called "Zaphod Mode" that allowed you to drive a graphics card's multiple outputs (on cards that supported such) mapping each to a different X "screen", Zaphod Beeblebrox, of The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy, had two heads, you see.
  - m3ta4a 6y ago
    "Headless" can also refer to a browser that doesn't render to the screen, useful for automated integration tests.
- hanspagel 6y ago
  Then it’s styleless and markupless (that’s not a word, is it?), too.
- gman83 6y ago
  Yeah I think the Jamstack folks have decided to use headless in an entirely different way. For example search for headless CMS you'll find loads of CMSs that just run on a server and use an API to talk to the client, but they're just web pages. It just means not WordPress I think in this context.

philippkuehn 6y ago

The term "headless" is widely known in the React world for components where I have full control over markup and styling. In the Vue world, this is usually called "renderless". We have then decided to use the term "headless".

trymas 6y ago

> > The headless editor framework for web artisans. > This sounds like a parody. Don't forget the classic: > Made with ♥

hanspagel 6y ago
What’s wrong with “Made with Love”?
- bshimmin 6y ago
  It's a cliché and it's meaningless - it's not like you see "Made with hate" or "Made with indifference (but at least it covered my mortgage payments)".
  - hanspagel 6y ago
    Maybe it’s just not too often that people invest a few 1,000 unpaid hours in an open source project motivated by hate, I don’t know. We’ll consider to find something more meaningful than love for the footer message.
    - philipswood 6y ago
      "Made with passion", and "Made with dedication" Both don't have Unicode emoticons. Nothing wrong with: "Made with ♡" Awesome thing about advice and criticism - you can decide to ignore it. Do "Made for the ♡ of (unicorn emoticon)" if it floats your boat. This is a common signal for "I care about my [front-end] work."
- trymas 6y ago
  Absolutely nothing's wrong with it, but it's just am addition to parent comment on how funny some phrases sound like. Anyone can write whatever they want and name their projects however they want. "Fastest standalone headless framework. Powered by AI. Written in TypeScript, coded with love in San Francisco Bay, by @kode_ninja using VSCode." I write this with no offence. Just always have a chuckle while reading phrases like parent commenter and I commented on. :)