6 ms·

I'm curious if they're planning to fund the sever maintenance cost simply by selling hats. I knew that microtransactions were a viable money maker, but not to

I'm curious if they're planning to fund the sever maintenance cost simply by selling hats. I knew that microtransactions were a viable money maker, but not to this extent.

sliverstorm 15y ago
It's probably a combination of loss-leader, declining server load, and impending TF3 or equivalent. That is to say, the server maintenance costs have been dropping, are soon to be dominated by another product, and they are willing to take a hit in the interests of their greater business. They've also certainly made plenty of money from TF2 already, perhaps enough to support the servers for the projected life of the game.
- cookiecaper 15y ago
  I doubt it will be TF3 since there is really no need to do a major restructuring for TF2. It is excellent and very well balanced the way it is. The only thing I can think of that anyone would even want from TF3 would be a different graphical or techincal approach, which would have only limited interest. However, I also get an instinct that part of the motivation behind this will be a major new release from Valve, but maybe not. Maybe they are taking TF2 freemium because sales have declined anyway, it will allow greater microtransaction opportunity, and provide a broader userbase for Steam and the advertisements it displays on each boot.
  - jeffool 15y ago
    I agree with cookiecaper. I don't see Valve doing TF3 for some time. Whenever it does happen (and I think it will eventually) it will only be with large fundamental changes that the TF2 tech can't handle on reasonable machines. Valve has become genius in their new approach of "games as service" imo. I think we'll see them going GOIP (Gaming Over IP, that's right, I just coined that. And what?) by the end of next year, too.
    - StavrosK 15y ago
      What's Gaming over IP? What are we gaming over now?
      - RickHull 15y ago
        http://www.onlive.com/ http://www.onlive.com/ Your TV+microconsole (or your computer) becomes a gaming thin client. The game runs in the cloud, and only the sound, display, and controller actions are transmitted between the thin client and gaming server. i.e. the Netflix model I got the microconsole for $50 with a free game, and I must say, it works surprisingly well.
        StavrosK 15y ago
        Hmm, does that work? It sounds like it will cost a shitload for them to do the rendering on the server, plus a second shitload in bandwidth costs, plus the latency will be high...
        creativeembassy 15y ago
        I've been predicting for years that it wouldn't work. And then OnLive finally launched, and... well, it's a teensy bit laggy compared to PC/console gaming, but it's amazing nonetheless. For people who have been wanting to game but never got over the hurdle of the console prices, much less building a PC rig for gaming, OnLive is a godsend.
        jamesgeck0 15y ago
        The latency depends on the game you're playing. The better the video feed compresses, the more responsive the game will feel. It's works OK for 2D games and Batman:AA, but it's still not great for things like Unreal Tournament.
        teamonkey 15y ago
        It's worth trying if you're skeptical. It's free to sign up and it allows you to play the first 30 minutes of several games free of charge.
  - debaserab 15y ago
    Yes, totally agreed. The release of free TF2 actually made me realize how there may never be a TF3 -- or at least, not for many, many years. There's little reason to. The gameplay is very good and the engine they are running on is in no way a limiting factor. The only thing TF3 would have to offer is graphics, and with TF2's "cartoonish" style, I have to wonder what there really is to improve upon there.
    - Apocryphon 15y ago
      More classes!
- gjs278 15y ago
  it is not a loss leader. no company in the face of the planet uses loss leaders. it's a myth. it makes more money than probably any game on steam for them.
  - true_religion 15y ago
    Really? How about freemium products? Giving away something for free when it costs you something to at least host the service is the definition of a loss leader.
  - teamonkey 15y ago
    Valve makes much more money off Steam sales than it does off making games. They make games because that's what they like doing. At this stage in their business everything is about getting people to use Steam, even if it means giving away their products for free.
arn 15y ago
freemium is huge. It's why there's been so much movement in that direction. Anecdotally, I'd heard a tale that one iOS developer thought "what the heck" and added a seemingly absurd $40 in-app tier purchase option, and it turned out to be their biggest money maker. Also for reference: http://appshopper.com/bestsellers/gros/?device=iphone http://appshopper.com/bestsellers/gros/?device=iphone Six out of the Top 10 Grossing iPhone apps are Free to download and rely on in app purchases. Those freemium apps are outearning practically all the paid apps in the app store.
- StavrosK 15y ago
  It helps greatly that there's zero cost for the publisher to have their game run by another user, unlike web apps.
- BenSS 15y ago
  It makes a lot of sense in the app store, simply because there's no way to 'try before you buy' otherwise. The basic store page gives relatively little information about how the app runs and behaves.
Zakharov 15y ago
At least here in Australia, all the servers are hosted by third parties such as ISPs. Valve only needs to authenticate users.
InclinedPlane 15y ago
Valve doesn't need to provide server infrastructure, individuals do that. They only provide the front-end for server searches. The only thing they need to continue to fund is ongoing development. Also, yes, they can fund continued development solely on the hat-conomy, as crazy as that sounds.
- __mark 15y ago
  Actually, it would seem valve has actually started hosting vanilla servers, which is great for new players.
- JL2010 15y ago
  I think what the OP meant was paying for their content distribution servers, not game servers.
  - InclinedPlane 15y ago
    That infrastructure is amortized over all steam titles though, so effectively very tiny for TF2.
blutonium 15y ago
Yeah, hats print money: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77708 http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77708

I'm curious if they're planning to fund the sever maintenance cost simply by selling hats. I knew that microtransactions were a viable money maker, but not to this extent.

sliverstorm 15y ago

It's probably a combination of loss-leader, declining server load, and impending TF3 or equivalent. That is to say, the server maintenance costs have been dropping, are soon to be dominated by another product, and they are willing to take a hit in the interests of their greater business. They've also certainly made plenty of money from TF2 already, perhaps enough to support the servers for the projected life of the game.

cookiecaper 15y ago
I doubt it will be TF3 since there is really no need to do a major restructuring for TF2. It is excellent and very well balanced the way it is. The only thing I can think of that anyone would even want from TF3 would be a different graphical or techincal approach, which would have only limited interest. However, I also get an instinct that part of the motivation behind this will be a major new release from Valve, but maybe not. Maybe they are taking TF2 freemium because sales have declined anyway, it will allow greater microtransaction opportunity, and provide a broader userbase for Steam and the advertisements it displays on each boot.
- jeffool 15y ago
  I agree with cookiecaper. I don't see Valve doing TF3 for some time. Whenever it does happen (and I think it will eventually) it will only be with large fundamental changes that the TF2 tech can't handle on reasonable machines. Valve has become genius in their new approach of "games as service" imo. I think we'll see them going GOIP (Gaming Over IP, that's right, I just coined that. And what?) by the end of next year, too.
  - StavrosK 15y ago
    What's Gaming over IP? What are we gaming over now?
    - RickHull 15y ago
      http://www.onlive.com/ http://www.onlive.com/ Your TV+microconsole (or your computer) becomes a gaming thin client. The game runs in the cloud, and only the sound, display, and controller actions are transmitted between the thin client and gaming server. i.e. the Netflix model I got the microconsole for $50 with a free game, and I must say, it works surprisingly well.
      - StavrosK 15y ago
        Hmm, does that work? It sounds like it will cost a shitload for them to do the rendering on the server, plus a second shitload in bandwidth costs, plus the latency will be high...
        creativeembassy 15y ago
        I've been predicting for years that it wouldn't work. And then OnLive finally launched, and... well, it's a teensy bit laggy compared to PC/console gaming, but it's amazing nonetheless. For people who have been wanting to game but never got over the hurdle of the console prices, much less building a PC rig for gaming, OnLive is a godsend.
        jamesgeck0 15y ago
        The latency depends on the game you're playing. The better the video feed compresses, the more responsive the game will feel. It's works OK for 2D games and Batman:AA, but it's still not great for things like Unreal Tournament.
        teamonkey 15y ago
        It's worth trying if you're skeptical. It's free to sign up and it allows you to play the first 30 minutes of several games free of charge.
- debaserab 15y ago
  Yes, totally agreed. The release of free TF2 actually made me realize how there may never be a TF3 -- or at least, not for many, many years. There's little reason to. The gameplay is very good and the engine they are running on is in no way a limiting factor. The only thing TF3 would have to offer is graphics, and with TF2's "cartoonish" style, I have to wonder what there really is to improve upon there.
  - Apocryphon 15y ago
    More classes!
gjs278 15y ago
it is not a loss leader. no company in the face of the planet uses loss leaders. it's a myth. it makes more money than probably any game on steam for them.
- true_religion 15y ago
  Really? How about freemium products? Giving away something for free when it costs you something to at least host the service is the definition of a loss leader.
- teamonkey 15y ago
  Valve makes much more money off Steam sales than it does off making games. They make games because that's what they like doing. At this stage in their business everything is about getting people to use Steam, even if it means giving away their products for free.

arn 15y ago

freemium is huge. It's why there's been so much movement in that direction. Anecdotally, I'd heard a tale that one iOS developer thought "what the heck" and added a seemingly absurd $40 in-app tier purchase option, and it turned out to be their biggest money maker. Also for reference: http://appshopper.com/bestsellers/gros/?device=iphone http://appshopper.com/bestsellers/gros/?device=iphone Six out of the Top 10 Grossing iPhone apps are Free to download and rely on in app purchases. Those freemium apps are outearning practically all the paid apps in the app store.

StavrosK 15y ago
It helps greatly that there's zero cost for the publisher to have their game run by another user, unlike web apps.
BenSS 15y ago
It makes a lot of sense in the app store, simply because there's no way to 'try before you buy' otherwise. The basic store page gives relatively little information about how the app runs and behaves.

Zakharov 15y ago

At least here in Australia, all the servers are hosted by third parties such as ISPs. Valve only needs to authenticate users.

InclinedPlane 15y ago

Valve doesn't need to provide server infrastructure, individuals do that. They only provide the front-end for server searches. The only thing they need to continue to fund is ongoing development. Also, yes, they can fund continued development solely on the hat-conomy, as crazy as that sounds.

__mark 15y ago
Actually, it would seem valve has actually started hosting vanilla servers, which is great for new players.
JL2010 15y ago
I think what the OP meant was paying for their content distribution servers, not game servers.
- InclinedPlane 15y ago
  That infrastructure is amortized over all steam titles though, so effectively very tiny for TF2.

blutonium 15y ago

Yeah, hats print money: http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77708 http://www.polycount.com/forum/showthread.php?t=77708