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I understand your point, but the fear sounds overblown. North Korea isn't some isolated kingdom in the Andes - they have a long border with China, over which t

I understand your point, but the fear sounds overblown. North Korea isn't some isolated kingdom in the Andes - they have a long border with China, over which the US has no control. If NK wants to raise a hacker army, I don't think the existence of some used computers donated by American churches would make a meaningful difference. * That said, we also have to consider the danger of the US government deciding the donation is illegal, so ... (shrug)

ehsankia 6y ago
My knowledge of NK is fairly limited, but I genuinely don't see what help would computers do to NK. Do they have access to the internet? What good do computers do without an internet connection? Maybe you can play some games, maybe you can load some software like spreadsheets but that's assuming they have books to learn how to use it. Would it be for training so they can get some better jobs? Are there computer jobs?
- abraae 6y ago
  Back in the old days we learned about computers without the internet. You had mainly paper documentation. With 10 or so of the best tech manuals to read, and a bunch of old machines to network together, and a few CDs of useful software, the right person could easily become highly skilled. And by definition hacking means working out things that aren't already known (by many at least) so the absence of say stackoverflow and the other joys of the internet wouldn't slow those guys down either.
- yongjik 6y ago
  The economy of North Korea is an enigma, but despite decades of very poor planning, they do have industry. I'm sure they have jobs that need basic computer literacy.
- function_seven 6y ago
  I had a computer for 12 years before my first Internet connection. Actually didn't have a modem at all. It was hugely influential in my development. I drew things, animated things, made music, wrote school papers and a neighborhood newsletter, made videos with wipes and title cards, wrote my first resume (at 15, hah), and of course played some games. I give a tremendous amount of credit to having that in the home for my current computer literacy and career path.
- gambiting 6y ago
  >>What good do computers do without an internet connection? I mean, computers have accelerated nearly every single industrial process they touched by few orders of magnitude, long before internet was a thing. They will be used exactly for the same purpose in NK still - operating machinery, operating poing of sale systems, keeping inventory, teaching.....also NK has intranet network, while the knowledge about it is limited, it's basically a very restricted and heavily filtered version of internet available to North Koreans. There are accounts from people who have even tought computer science in NK: https://www.vice.com/en/article/z4m8qx/how-to-teach-computer-science-in-north-korea https://www.vice.com/en/article/z4m8qx/how-to-teach-computer... And general reports on what they use: https://www.businessinsider.com/what-using-a-computer-in-north-korea-is-like-screenshots?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/what-using-a-computer-in-nor... So yeah, there are absolutely computer jobs in the country.
- baybal2 6y ago
  NK has a fairly good Internet connection through China. Outside Internet is available to the elites. And yes, they have zero impediment smuggling just anything through China. Anecdotes tell of latest RolceRoyces on streets of Pyongyang.
SuoDuanDao 6y ago
In addition to the host country's potential concerns, donated computers often contain private data that the donator thinks has been deleted. If a country is known to have a hacker program, I certainly wouldn't want my computer going there even if they can buy factory grade ones.
- andrewzah 6y ago
  "If a country is known to have a hacker program" In other words, any modern country? Drives should be zeroed before getting sent off anyways.

ehsankia 6y ago

My knowledge of NK is fairly limited, but I genuinely don't see what help would computers do to NK. Do they have access to the internet? What good do computers do without an internet connection? Maybe you can play some games, maybe you can load some software like spreadsheets but that's assuming they have books to learn how to use it. Would it be for training so they can get some better jobs? Are there computer jobs?

abraae 6y ago
Back in the old days we learned about computers without the internet. You had mainly paper documentation. With 10 or so of the best tech manuals to read, and a bunch of old machines to network together, and a few CDs of useful software, the right person could easily become highly skilled. And by definition hacking means working out things that aren't already known (by many at least) so the absence of say stackoverflow and the other joys of the internet wouldn't slow those guys down either.
yongjik 6y ago
The economy of North Korea is an enigma, but despite decades of very poor planning, they do have industry. I'm sure they have jobs that need basic computer literacy.
function_seven 6y ago
I had a computer for 12 years before my first Internet connection. Actually didn't have a modem at all. It was hugely influential in my development. I drew things, animated things, made music, wrote school papers and a neighborhood newsletter, made videos with wipes and title cards, wrote my first resume (at 15, hah), and of course played some games. I give a tremendous amount of credit to having that in the home for my current computer literacy and career path.
gambiting 6y ago
>>What good do computers do without an internet connection? I mean, computers have accelerated nearly every single industrial process they touched by few orders of magnitude, long before internet was a thing. They will be used exactly for the same purpose in NK still - operating machinery, operating poing of sale systems, keeping inventory, teaching.....also NK has intranet network, while the knowledge about it is limited, it's basically a very restricted and heavily filtered version of internet available to North Koreans. There are accounts from people who have even tought computer science in NK: https://www.vice.com/en/article/z4m8qx/how-to-teach-computer-science-in-north-korea https://www.vice.com/en/article/z4m8qx/how-to-teach-computer... And general reports on what they use: https://www.businessinsider.com/what-using-a-computer-in-north-korea-is-like-screenshots?r=US&IR=T https://www.businessinsider.com/what-using-a-computer-in-nor... So yeah, there are absolutely computer jobs in the country.
baybal2 6y ago
NK has a fairly good Internet connection through China. Outside Internet is available to the elites. And yes, they have zero impediment smuggling just anything through China. Anecdotes tell of latest RolceRoyces on streets of Pyongyang.

SuoDuanDao 6y ago

In addition to the host country's potential concerns, donated computers often contain private data that the donator thinks has been deleted. If a country is known to have a hacker program, I certainly wouldn't want my computer going there even if they can buy factory grade ones.

andrewzah 6y ago
"If a country is known to have a hacker program" In other words, any modern country? Drives should be zeroed before getting sent off anyways.