4 ms·

From what I understood there is a huge flow of drugs like meth from NK into China. They are basically just a mafia state who will do anything for money.

dmingod666 6y ago
As opposed to America? Which does wars to protect its dollar hegemony and loot oil around the world. Toppling democracies to install puppet dictators.
- usefulcat 6y ago
  Parent said nothing about the US. You have a valid point, but there are far better ways to make it than with this complete non-sequitur.
  - yesenadam 6y ago
    Yes, but.. it doesn't seem completely a complete non-sequitur. Thoughts about whataboutism: When you say "Y is basically just a mafia state who will do anything for money", there seems an unspoken premise "My country X is not like that/is better than that." And to someone to whom X is not better than Y in that respect, the initial claim sounds like "Y is evil because they have two legs", when X has two legs also. It sounds ignorantly hypocritical. How else to point out "Uh, but you also have two legs, although you're acting like you don't."? The problem wasn't that the first claim wasn't true, but that it was spoken in a hypocritical way, saying one party is bad for a reason which applies equally to the other party. And to someone to whom both parties seem to have the bad condition, before they can hear or really respond to the "Y is bad" claim, you really have to deal with—justify—your own unspoken premise of "My own country X doesn't do the bad thing." Just saying "But X also does the same bad thing!" gets accused of whataboutism, as here. "Parent said nothing about X". True, not explicitly, but X appeared in the unspoken premises. Which loom large if you think one or more of them false. I'm not sure what the solution is. I guess maybe saying "I think you have an unspoken premise, which seems false to me, that your country X doesn't do the bad thing you are accusing Y of" at least has a milder tone.

dmingod666 6y ago

As opposed to America? Which does wars to protect its dollar hegemony and loot oil around the world. Toppling democracies to install puppet dictators.

usefulcat 6y ago
Parent said nothing about the US. You have a valid point, but there are far better ways to make it than with this complete non-sequitur.
- yesenadam 6y ago
  Yes, but.. it doesn't seem completely a complete non-sequitur. Thoughts about whataboutism: When you say "Y is basically just a mafia state who will do anything for money", there seems an unspoken premise "My country X is not like that/is better than that." And to someone to whom X is not better than Y in that respect, the initial claim sounds like "Y is evil because they have two legs", when X has two legs also. It sounds ignorantly hypocritical. How else to point out "Uh, but you also have two legs, although you're acting like you don't."? The problem wasn't that the first claim wasn't true, but that it was spoken in a hypocritical way, saying one party is bad for a reason which applies equally to the other party. And to someone to whom both parties seem to have the bad condition, before they can hear or really respond to the "Y is bad" claim, you really have to deal with—justify—your own unspoken premise of "My own country X doesn't do the bad thing." Just saying "But X also does the same bad thing!" gets accused of whataboutism, as here. "Parent said nothing about X". True, not explicitly, but X appeared in the unspoken premises. Which loom large if you think one or more of them false. I'm not sure what the solution is. I guess maybe saying "I think you have an unspoken premise, which seems false to me, that your country X doesn't do the bad thing you are accusing Y of" at least has a milder tone.