4 ms·

Anybody on HackerRank could use the knowledge gained nefariously, why should North Koreans be specifically banned?

codezero 6y ago
I don’t think they should be. Those people are pawns though, not curious hackers. The Us govt decides what countries we sanction, not me.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  The US cyber related sanctions do not seem to forbid educational resources from being accessed in North Korea, with a possible exception related to encryption. >Those people are pawns though, not curious hackers Anyone using the site for their government or private job would be then. Practicing for your employment does not mean you don't like your job.
  - codezero 6y ago
    This is an interesting workaround. The people I found were definitely overly part of a university which would explain the potential reason this might be a good technicality.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      It's not a workaround. There are economic sanctions and an arms embargo, not a total ban on interaction.
      - codezero 6y ago
        Given that these hackers are acting maliciously on behalf of a violent dictator, it’s a workaround.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        I didn't realize you had tracked the people registering on the service and successfully tied them to malicious acts. Is their nationality really important at that point? Or are you just in favor of collective punishment against North Koreans, individual actions are irrelevant?
        codezero 6y ago
        I'm speaking about nation states, not individuals, I am disappointed with the state of affairs there, and wish there was more we could do to stop the oppression. I am not speaking in terms of a personal attack against oppressed North Koreans, and it's confusing that you appear to persist in turning this discussion into that. I want hackers to learn more, I am not personally responsible for whether or not it is legal for a North Korean citizen to use a service offered by a US entity, and I do not have a strong opinion about whether it's OK to regulate that, it's not my speciality. I was sharing an observation: people from North Korea are training their hacking skills using Hacker Rank. NK internet is strongly regulated, so those people must be using it for state sponsored purposes. Current trends for computing expertise in North Korea have been towards malicious acts by the government (not pointing fingers at individuals, I hope some of these NK hackers find a way to escape their oppression but I suspect they'll just be treated better than others so they'll continue to be oppressed next generation). Please let me know what you think I'm saying that implies I am in favor of collective punishment against North Koreans based on my statements here so I can more accurately respond to your concern. I'd also love to hear why you have such a strong point of view on this subject, it may add color to help me understand your statements.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        >I'm speaking about nation states, not individuals, Your comments start with "I noticed a lot of people" and continues talking about the individuals. >Please let me know what you think I'm saying that implies I am in favor of collective punishment against North Koreans based on my statements here The part where you say a ban would be useless as they'd just circumvent it seems like saying a blanket ban is justified. Or where you wondered why Hacker Rank let them use their platform at all. I will say, I'm less sure that Hacker Rank wouldn't violate the economic restrictions now, visiting the site makes it look a lot more like job recruitment than I thought it was. Beyond that, I'll paraphrase. For absolutely no reason, you assume that everyone using a computer in North Korea must be using it for hacking. Yet in the society you live in, can you name a single business that does not use some kind of software the tools at Hacker Rank helps improve? They have plenty of use for the training outside of criminal hacking, and you saying it's a "workaround" for them to access educational resources ignores this. >I'd also love to hear why you have such a strong point of view on this subject I hate how people treat North Koreans as either mindless tools of the state or pitiable oppressed masses. None of your comments have acted like any of the people signing up are real humans expressing complex desires in their admittedly somewhat shitty situation. Imagine how you would feel to wake up suddenly blocked from the service because they decided they don't like where you're from.
creato 6y ago
In my opinion: as long as NK blocks its average citizens from using the internet, we should block the "privileged" in NK from using the internet.
- codezero 6y ago
  The reason we haven't bothered trying, I assume, is because we can very easily see what they _are_ doing if we don't block it, and if we do, they'll just go through China.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  So you don't oppose internet access being blocked, you just want to be the one to control who's blocked? Or you are only in favor of blocking access to those who block others, so you're willing to sacrifice your access to block theirs?
  - edgyquant 6y ago
    These seems like some kinda paradox of intolerance. If they block all their citizens from using the wider internet we should absolutely block them.
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      If we block their citizens from the wider internet, we should be blocked too then.
      - edgyquant 6y ago
        This doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying they should block us? The point would be moot if they’re already blocked. Are you saying we should let their elites indulge in our media when their own citizens can’t? Because if so you’ve completely ignored my statement about the paradox of intolerance
        6y ago
m00x 6y ago
Hacker rank is an American company. US has sanctions against NK and they treat this very seriously. They could shut down hacker rank for not complying.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  What sanctions block access to the internet? 448 seems to indicate HackerRank has no liability here https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/topic/1546 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...

I don’t think they should be. Those people are pawns though, not curious hackers. The Us govt decides what countries we sanction, not me.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
The US cyber related sanctions do not seem to forbid educational resources from being accessed in North Korea, with a possible exception related to encryption. >Those people are pawns though, not curious hackers Anyone using the site for their government or private job would be then. Practicing for your employment does not mean you don't like your job.
- codezero 6y ago
  This is an interesting workaround. The people I found were definitely overly part of a university which would explain the potential reason this might be a good technicality.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    It's not a workaround. There are economic sanctions and an arms embargo, not a total ban on interaction.
    - codezero 6y ago
      Given that these hackers are acting maliciously on behalf of a violent dictator, it’s a workaround.
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        I didn't realize you had tracked the people registering on the service and successfully tied them to malicious acts. Is their nationality really important at that point? Or are you just in favor of collective punishment against North Koreans, individual actions are irrelevant?
        codezero 6y ago
        I'm speaking about nation states, not individuals, I am disappointed with the state of affairs there, and wish there was more we could do to stop the oppression. I am not speaking in terms of a personal attack against oppressed North Koreans, and it's confusing that you appear to persist in turning this discussion into that. I want hackers to learn more, I am not personally responsible for whether or not it is legal for a North Korean citizen to use a service offered by a US entity, and I do not have a strong opinion about whether it's OK to regulate that, it's not my speciality. I was sharing an observation: people from North Korea are training their hacking skills using Hacker Rank. NK internet is strongly regulated, so those people must be using it for state sponsored purposes. Current trends for computing expertise in North Korea have been towards malicious acts by the government (not pointing fingers at individuals, I hope some of these NK hackers find a way to escape their oppression but I suspect they'll just be treated better than others so they'll continue to be oppressed next generation). Please let me know what you think I'm saying that implies I am in favor of collective punishment against North Koreans based on my statements here so I can more accurately respond to your concern. I'd also love to hear why you have such a strong point of view on this subject, it may add color to help me understand your statements.
        boomboomsubban 6y ago
        >I'm speaking about nation states, not individuals, Your comments start with "I noticed a lot of people" and continues talking about the individuals. >Please let me know what you think I'm saying that implies I am in favor of collective punishment against North Koreans based on my statements here The part where you say a ban would be useless as they'd just circumvent it seems like saying a blanket ban is justified. Or where you wondered why Hacker Rank let them use their platform at all. I will say, I'm less sure that Hacker Rank wouldn't violate the economic restrictions now, visiting the site makes it look a lot more like job recruitment than I thought it was. Beyond that, I'll paraphrase. For absolutely no reason, you assume that everyone using a computer in North Korea must be using it for hacking. Yet in the society you live in, can you name a single business that does not use some kind of software the tools at Hacker Rank helps improve? They have plenty of use for the training outside of criminal hacking, and you saying it's a "workaround" for them to access educational resources ignores this. >I'd also love to hear why you have such a strong point of view on this subject I hate how people treat North Koreans as either mindless tools of the state or pitiable oppressed masses. None of your comments have acted like any of the people signing up are real humans expressing complex desires in their admittedly somewhat shitty situation. Imagine how you would feel to wake up suddenly blocked from the service because they decided they don't like where you're from.

creato 6y ago

In my opinion: as long as NK blocks its average citizens from using the internet, we should block the "privileged" in NK from using the internet.

codezero 6y ago
The reason we haven't bothered trying, I assume, is because we can very easily see what they _are_ doing if we don't block it, and if we do, they'll just go through China.
boomboomsubban 6y ago
So you don't oppose internet access being blocked, you just want to be the one to control who's blocked? Or you are only in favor of blocking access to those who block others, so you're willing to sacrifice your access to block theirs?
- edgyquant 6y ago
  These seems like some kinda paradox of intolerance. If they block all their citizens from using the wider internet we should absolutely block them.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    If we block their citizens from the wider internet, we should be blocked too then.
    - edgyquant 6y ago
      This doesn’t make any sense. Are you saying they should block us? The point would be moot if they’re already blocked. Are you saying we should let their elites indulge in our media when their own citizens can’t? Because if so you’ve completely ignored my statement about the paradox of intolerance
      - 6y ago

m00x 6y ago

Hacker rank is an American company. US has sanctions against NK and they treat this very seriously. They could shut down hacker rank for not complying.

boomboomsubban 6y ago
What sanctions block access to the internet? 448 seems to indicate HackerRank has no liability here https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/faqs/topic/1546 https://home.treasury.gov/policy-issues/financial-sanctions/...