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> which to me says that it's becoming the settlement layer as expected To me it says that only rich whales get to transact in bitcoin. Pretty sad that now reg

> which to me says that it's becoming the settlement layer as expected To me it says that only rich whales get to transact in bitcoin. Pretty sad that now regular people get excluded from something that was conceived as p2p internet cash.

rawtxapp 5y ago
Not really, it just means big centralized companies are settling their end-users funds on the blockchain while providing them access to it practically free. Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. And soon enough channel factories should make it possible to create multiple lightning channels at once, so an end-user will never pay the whole channel opening fee by themselves. As long as Bitcoin's layer 1 stays secure/open/decentralized, the average non-whale user will be able to use it through these other layers just as easily.
- AlexandrB 5y ago
  > Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. So people are using Bitcoin through trusted (in the security sense[1]) intermediaries. These intermediaries are basically banks, no? Aren't they subject to all the same bad incentives as a "traditional" bank? Except their deposit are (probably?) not insured against loss. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_third_party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_third_party > 'Trusted' means that a system needs to be trusted to act in your interests, but it has the option (either at will or involuntarily) to act against your interests.
  - rawtxapp 5y ago
    It's the short term option, yes. Well, they have to hold on to the coins, because once they lose it, they can't turn to Fed for a bailout. Lots of custodians have insurance in place [1]. In the long term, lightning is here and works, as exchanges keep integrating it, that's where most of the end-user funds for small amounts would live. 1: https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/bitgo-expands-cold-storage-insurance-194938290.html https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/bitgo-expands-cold-st...
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- ccortes 5y ago
  > Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. I'm not American, but as far as I know you can't withdraw bitcoin from paypal, cash app or venmo.
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rawtxapp 5y ago

Not really, it just means big centralized companies are settling their end-users funds on the blockchain while providing them access to it practically free. Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. And soon enough channel factories should make it possible to create multiple lightning channels at once, so an end-user will never pay the whole channel opening fee by themselves. As long as Bitcoin's layer 1 stays secure/open/decentralized, the average non-whale user will be able to use it through these other layers just as easily.

AlexandrB 5y ago
> Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. So people are using Bitcoin through trusted (in the security sense[1]) intermediaries. These intermediaries are basically banks, no? Aren't they subject to all the same bad incentives as a "traditional" bank? Except their deposit are (probably?) not insured against loss. [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_third_party https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trusted_third_party > 'Trusted' means that a system needs to be trusted to act in your interests, but it has the option (either at will or involuntarily) to act against your interests.
- rawtxapp 5y ago
  It's the short term option, yes. Well, they have to hold on to the coins, because once they lose it, they can't turn to Fed for a bailout. Lots of custodians have insurance in place [1]. In the long term, lightning is here and works, as exchanges keep integrating it, that's where most of the end-user funds for small amounts would live. 1: https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/bitgo-expands-cold-storage-insurance-194938290.html https://finance.yahoo.com/finance/news/bitgo-expands-cold-st...
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ccortes 5y ago
> Regular people right now use it through Paypal, Cash app, Venmo, Coinbase, etc. I'm not American, but as far as I know you can't withdraw bitcoin from paypal, cash app or venmo.

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