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This would be a correct usage, not a performative usage like corporations calling grocery store workers "heroes" because they have to go to work or lose jobs th

This would be a correct usage, not a performative usage like corporations calling grocery store workers "heroes" because they have to go to work or lose jobs they depend on.

eertami 5y ago
You and I also depend on grocery store workers. We would be in even greater chaos without them. I'm not sure where you're going with this.
- h4waii 5y ago
  I believe they are essentially saying this: https://i.redd.it/pmori9td3ar51.jpg https://i.redd.it/pmori9td3ar51.jpg I hate just drive-by posting an image of a tweet from Reddit, which may not even be true, but I think it's succinct.
  - pmiller2 5y ago
    Which part do you think might not be true? That the daughter is a slave of capitalism? I'd say that's the part most likely to be true. There were times early on in the pandemic when people were seriously questioning whether they should go to work and risk their health, or stay home and lose their jobs. Don't forget, the CARES act didn't pass until late March last year.
    - h4waii 5y ago
      Oh, just that the "conversation" ever happened, I have no doubt this is a situation a lot of people are in, and it's saddening.
      - pmiller2 5y ago
        Oh, I get it. Yeah, the sad part is that this conversation could have happened, and it would be completely banal in the scheme of things.
- pmiller2 5y ago
  Do you think someone is a hero because they have to choose to protect either their job or their health? Either way is a huge lose.
  - munificent 5y ago
    I do think it's fair to characterize someone as a "hero" if they take great or sacrifice in ways that benefit others, even if the person doesn't have complete liberty and agency at the moment that they do it. There are always forces and restrictions that affect our choices.
    - pmiller2 5y ago
      Well, then we disagree. Making one of two bad choices doesn't make anyone a hero in my book. I don't believe most of the grocery store workers who continued to go to work amidst the danger of the pandemic without any idea that there would be enhanced unemployment benefits were at all "heroic." It's as another comment here put it: take money out of the equation, and I'm sure we would have seen a vastly different result. If the choice is to become homeless, along with all the difficulties that presents; versus maybe die of a nasty disease at some indefinite future point, I think the majority would choose the latter. That's just pragmatism, not heroism.
      - munificent 5y ago
        Sure, that's a logically coherent framework you can choose to believe. Personally, I like to interpret people's actions in a framework of maximum charity and compassion. Their work benefits others at risk to themselves, so why not take the opportunity to give them credit for that? You can do that while simultaneously criticizing the financial systems that make doing that work a less than perfectly free choice.
- kbenson 5y ago
  It's possible for someone to do good and help others without rising to the level of a hero. At least it was prior to the expansion of the word to cover far more than it originally did. We've gone from using the word to describe people who have taken a concrete action that makes them deserving of that description to using it to describe anyone that does a job that some people sometimes end up being heroes while doing them. Do I think most grocery store workers are heroes? No. I think it's possible to be one, but many essential elements are missing. Is that store in danger of closing because they don't have enough people to run it, and it's the only real method for people in the area to feasibly feed themselves, and while that worker really doesn't want to expose themselves, they see it as their duty to make sure the store stays open so the people around them have a way to feed themselves? That's a hero. If it's something you would do to help others at danger to yourself when presented to you even if money was taken out of the equation? You might be a hero. I think a great many police officers and firefighters would intervene in a situation they knew they could help in even if it was dangerous, and they were off duty. I don't think that makes every police officer or firefighter a hero. I am grateful for the people that continues to do their jobs even when it became more risky. I'll acknowledge that and I agree they helped us all, and I appreciate that and them. I don't think that makes them heroes. The Doctor in the article might feel somewhat offended if what she went through were deemed similar to what a grocery store worker went through. If I was a grocery store worker, I would feel ashamed and embarrassed if someone tried to equate what I went through to something like what medical staff in an ICU go through. Yet, when we use the same word to describe the achievements and sacrifices of them both, and it's the highest praise we have for that, how are we not doing exactly that to some degree?

This would be a correct usage, not a performative usage like corporations calling grocery store workers "heroes" because they have to go to work or lose jobs they depend on.

eertami 5y ago

You and I also depend on grocery store workers. We would be in even greater chaos without them. I'm not sure where you're going with this.

h4waii 5y ago
I believe they are essentially saying this: https://i.redd.it/pmori9td3ar51.jpg https://i.redd.it/pmori9td3ar51.jpg I hate just drive-by posting an image of a tweet from Reddit, which may not even be true, but I think it's succinct.
- pmiller2 5y ago
  Which part do you think might not be true? That the daughter is a slave of capitalism? I'd say that's the part most likely to be true. There were times early on in the pandemic when people were seriously questioning whether they should go to work and risk their health, or stay home and lose their jobs. Don't forget, the CARES act didn't pass until late March last year.
  - h4waii 5y ago
    Oh, just that the "conversation" ever happened, I have no doubt this is a situation a lot of people are in, and it's saddening.
    - pmiller2 5y ago
      Oh, I get it. Yeah, the sad part is that this conversation could have happened, and it would be completely banal in the scheme of things.
pmiller2 5y ago
Do you think someone is a hero because they have to choose to protect either their job or their health? Either way is a huge lose.
- munificent 5y ago
  I do think it's fair to characterize someone as a "hero" if they take great or sacrifice in ways that benefit others, even if the person doesn't have complete liberty and agency at the moment that they do it. There are always forces and restrictions that affect our choices.
  - pmiller2 5y ago
    Well, then we disagree. Making one of two bad choices doesn't make anyone a hero in my book. I don't believe most of the grocery store workers who continued to go to work amidst the danger of the pandemic without any idea that there would be enhanced unemployment benefits were at all "heroic." It's as another comment here put it: take money out of the equation, and I'm sure we would have seen a vastly different result. If the choice is to become homeless, along with all the difficulties that presents; versus maybe die of a nasty disease at some indefinite future point, I think the majority would choose the latter. That's just pragmatism, not heroism.
    - munificent 5y ago
      Sure, that's a logically coherent framework you can choose to believe. Personally, I like to interpret people's actions in a framework of maximum charity and compassion. Their work benefits others at risk to themselves, so why not take the opportunity to give them credit for that? You can do that while simultaneously criticizing the financial systems that make doing that work a less than perfectly free choice.
kbenson 5y ago
It's possible for someone to do good and help others without rising to the level of a hero. At least it was prior to the expansion of the word to cover far more than it originally did. We've gone from using the word to describe people who have taken a concrete action that makes them deserving of that description to using it to describe anyone that does a job that some people sometimes end up being heroes while doing them. Do I think most grocery store workers are heroes? No. I think it's possible to be one, but many essential elements are missing. Is that store in danger of closing because they don't have enough people to run it, and it's the only real method for people in the area to feasibly feed themselves, and while that worker really doesn't want to expose themselves, they see it as their duty to make sure the store stays open so the people around them have a way to feed themselves? That's a hero. If it's something you would do to help others at danger to yourself when presented to you even if money was taken out of the equation? You might be a hero. I think a great many police officers and firefighters would intervene in a situation they knew they could help in even if it was dangerous, and they were off duty. I don't think that makes every police officer or firefighter a hero. I am grateful for the people that continues to do their jobs even when it became more risky. I'll acknowledge that and I agree they helped us all, and I appreciate that and them. I don't think that makes them heroes. The Doctor in the article might feel somewhat offended if what she went through were deemed similar to what a grocery store worker went through. If I was a grocery store worker, I would feel ashamed and embarrassed if someone tried to equate what I went through to something like what medical staff in an ICU go through. Yet, when we use the same word to describe the achievements and sacrifices of them both, and it's the highest praise we have for that, how are we not doing exactly that to some degree?