3 ms·

Well, the context of the question, I think, is what you do when the "content" in question is navigation elements. I expect the page not to move things, either,

Well, the context of the question, I think, is what you do when the "content" in question is navigation elements. I expect the page not to move things, either, but I also don't expect to have to scroll to access basic navigation -- and if you just let those elements wrap on a small display, well, we're back to the page moving things. In general I'm (ahem) on the same page with you, but there are times when you have to decide on the least worst option.

inetknght 6y ago
If you have a site that needs navigation elements then you don't have a site. You have an app. You should build an app instead. When I scroll on a site I expect all of the site to move. That includes and headers or footers or sidebars.
- chipotle_coyote 6y ago
  > If you have a site that needs navigation elements then you don't have a site. You have an app. You should build an app instead. I have a web site that has multiple sections in it, and some of those sections have articles or stories in them, and some of those stories have chapters. I have breadcrumb navigation for it. That is a navigation element. I am not building an app. There are also web sites that have menus in them, because they have different sections and they choose to let you navigate between those sections using tabs or buttons or left-hand navigation columns or whatever. Those web sites are, nonetheless, still web sites. > When I scroll on a site I expect all of the site to move. That includes and headers or footers or sidebars. And when I view a site on my phone, I would prefer not to have to scroll left and right to access navigational elements. Because there will probably be navigation elements. Because web sites have those. :)
  - inetknght 6y ago
    > I have a web site that has multiple sections in it Cool. Scroll up to change sections. > and some of those sections have articles or stories in them That's pretty spiffy. > and some of those stories have chapters. I have breadcrumb navigation for it. When I read an ebook, I scroll down. When I scroll down I expect the navigation elements to move with (and disappear from) the screen. If you want to repeat your navigation elements at the bottom of the page, that'd be a nice compromise. But please do not keep navigation elements on screen. > There are also web sites that have menus in them Menus are not discoverable in websites. Most websites implementations of menus is god-awful. It's absolutely _not_ intuitive, ever, that hovering a mouse should open a menu. And if you click a menu, should that navigate to a new page like clicking on anything else? Or should clicking suddenly _not_ navigate to a new page but instead do something different? How do you tell the difference? Answer: you don't. The site shouldn't use menus. Use hyperlinks. > because they have different sections and they choose to let you navigate between those sections using tabs or buttons or left-hand navigation columns or whatever. Those web sites are, nonetheless, still web sites. And they're trashy websites that should be apps instead.
    - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
      I mean, okay. I never said "keep navigation elements on screen"; I said web sites need navigation elements. As for "menus aren't discoverable in web sites," well, again: I mean, okay. They've been around in web sites for about two decades and maybe they've made you mad for about two decades, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that a lot of folks, when confronted with a list of items across the top of a web site that read like Categories of Things much the same as the menus that they have been using in GUIs in many many many other places, can intuit what's going on. Maybe we're talking past each other. It feels to me like you're imagining the way these things that can be designed that you find absolutely the most annoying and deciding that's what I'm describing, and that you also have super strong opinions. Also, thanks for suggesting the documentation web sites that I work on that have left-hand navigation columns are "trashy web sites" because I need to include tables of contents that are always visible, but I respectfully decline your demand to turn them into apps, because that's stupid.
      - deleted 6y ago
        [deleted]

inetknght 6y ago

If you have a site that needs navigation elements then you don't have a site. You have an app. You should build an app instead. When I scroll on a site I expect all of the site to move. That includes and headers or footers or sidebars.

chipotle_coyote 6y ago
> If you have a site that needs navigation elements then you don't have a site. You have an app. You should build an app instead. I have a web site that has multiple sections in it, and some of those sections have articles or stories in them, and some of those stories have chapters. I have breadcrumb navigation for it. That is a navigation element. I am not building an app. There are also web sites that have menus in them, because they have different sections and they choose to let you navigate between those sections using tabs or buttons or left-hand navigation columns or whatever. Those web sites are, nonetheless, still web sites. > When I scroll on a site I expect all of the site to move. That includes and headers or footers or sidebars. And when I view a site on my phone, I would prefer not to have to scroll left and right to access navigational elements. Because there will probably be navigation elements. Because web sites have those. :)
- inetknght 6y ago
  > I have a web site that has multiple sections in it Cool. Scroll up to change sections. > and some of those sections have articles or stories in them That's pretty spiffy. > and some of those stories have chapters. I have breadcrumb navigation for it. When I read an ebook, I scroll down. When I scroll down I expect the navigation elements to move with (and disappear from) the screen. If you want to repeat your navigation elements at the bottom of the page, that'd be a nice compromise. But please do not keep navigation elements on screen. > There are also web sites that have menus in them Menus are not discoverable in websites. Most websites implementations of menus is god-awful. It's absolutely _not_ intuitive, ever, that hovering a mouse should open a menu. And if you click a menu, should that navigate to a new page like clicking on anything else? Or should clicking suddenly _not_ navigate to a new page but instead do something different? How do you tell the difference? Answer: you don't. The site shouldn't use menus. Use hyperlinks. > because they have different sections and they choose to let you navigate between those sections using tabs or buttons or left-hand navigation columns or whatever. Those web sites are, nonetheless, still web sites. And they're trashy websites that should be apps instead.
  - chipotle_coyote 6y ago
    I mean, okay. I never said "keep navigation elements on screen"; I said web sites need navigation elements. As for "menus aren't discoverable in web sites," well, again: I mean, okay. They've been around in web sites for about two decades and maybe they've made you mad for about two decades, but I am going to go out on a limb and say that a lot of folks, when confronted with a list of items across the top of a web site that read like Categories of Things much the same as the menus that they have been using in GUIs in many many many other places, can intuit what's going on. Maybe we're talking past each other. It feels to me like you're imagining the way these things that can be designed that you find absolutely the most annoying and deciding that's what I'm describing, and that you also have super strong opinions. Also, thanks for suggesting the documentation web sites that I work on that have left-hand navigation columns are "trashy web sites" because I need to include tables of contents that are always visible, but I respectfully decline your demand to turn them into apps, because that's stupid.
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]