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In this (somewhat contrived) scenario where authorities are targeting your phone for surveillance solely to access a possible exploit file placed there by Signa

In this (somewhat contrived) scenario where authorities are targeting your phone for surveillance solely to access a possible exploit file placed there by Signal, how would an opt-out option help you? Do you imagine that you could explain to the authorities that you opted out, and they would send you on your way? Or do you imagine that they would hold you personally responsible for the exploit, even though Signal has publicly taken credit for doing this?

gnfargbl 5y ago
That is not the scenario I'm outlining. I am outlining a hypothetical scenario where the authorities choose to look through my phone for ${UNRELATED_REASON}, and the presence of Signal's hypothetical exploit files would cause their digital forensics software to crash. In this hypothetical scenario, that crash in and of itself could then be taken as a reason to charge me. I don't believe "the app software maker selected my phone at random to have those files on it!" would help me out in that situation; that's the sort of nuance that tends to get completely lost. The opt-out option would help me because, having opted out in advance, the hypothetical exploit files would not be on my phone. I do agree that this is a slightly far-fetched scenario. However, I am very confused how HN can generally be of the opinion that having unwanted malware on your phone is a good thing, even if Signal put it there.
- ellenhp 5y ago
  I think this is my first-ever comment on HN, and I'm basically just chiming in to say that under no circumstances should you even be talking to police in a situation like this. You can politely ask for a lawyer, politely ask if you're being detained and politely provide your basic information when asked like your name and address, but otherwise do not say anything at all. This fantasy that you can get away from a situation in which you are being interrogated and your phone is being searched by being compliant and proving your innocence to the nice police officers is extremely dangerous. Being compliant and providing information beyond what's legally required is the exact opposite of what you want to do, and preventing yourself from being charged should be the last thing on your mind. You should take it as a given that you will be charged. edit: If you're outside the USA ignore this advice and listen to someone more local who knows their stuff.
- crtasm 5y ago
  > cause their digital forensics software to crash. Why would they make it crash the software though? There's no reason to do anything that's visible to the operator, perhaps it just alters data previously downloaded from other devices and then deletes itself. Or changes nothing other than adding a friendly file called moxie.says.hi.txt

gnfargbl 5y ago

That is not the scenario I'm outlining. I am outlining a hypothetical scenario where the authorities choose to look through my phone for ${UNRELATED_REASON}, and the presence of Signal's hypothetical exploit files would cause their digital forensics software to crash. In this hypothetical scenario, that crash in and of itself could then be taken as a reason to charge me. I don't believe "the app software maker selected my phone at random to have those files on it!" would help me out in that situation; that's the sort of nuance that tends to get completely lost. The opt-out option would help me because, having opted out in advance, the hypothetical exploit files would not be on my phone. I do agree that this is a slightly far-fetched scenario. However, I am very confused how HN can generally be of the opinion that having unwanted malware on your phone is a good thing, even if Signal put it there.

ellenhp 5y ago
I think this is my first-ever comment on HN, and I'm basically just chiming in to say that under no circumstances should you even be talking to police in a situation like this. You can politely ask for a lawyer, politely ask if you're being detained and politely provide your basic information when asked like your name and address, but otherwise do not say anything at all. This fantasy that you can get away from a situation in which you are being interrogated and your phone is being searched by being compliant and proving your innocence to the nice police officers is extremely dangerous. Being compliant and providing information beyond what's legally required is the exact opposite of what you want to do, and preventing yourself from being charged should be the last thing on your mind. You should take it as a given that you will be charged. edit: If you're outside the USA ignore this advice and listen to someone more local who knows their stuff.
crtasm 5y ago
> cause their digital forensics software to crash. Why would they make it crash the software though? There's no reason to do anything that's visible to the operator, perhaps it just alters data previously downloaded from other devices and then deletes itself. Or changes nothing other than adding a friendly file called moxie.says.hi.txt