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Hi Alex! Please, please, please do not use Discord to organize your open source project's community. Open source projects should rely on open source infrastruct

Hi Alex! Please, please, please do not use Discord to organize your open source project's community. Open source projects should rely on open source infrastructure. Discord is a proprietary platform, with a proprietary client, using a proprietary protocol, and has no business being involved in FOSS projects. Please consider using IRC or Matrix.

alex-a-soto 5y ago
Hi, we are working on setting up a Matrix server with bridges to other platforms. If you have suggestions or experience in this, I would appreciate your support.
- ddevault 5y ago
  I don't have any specific experience with Matrix to share suggestions from, unfortunately. But that's a good solution! Thanks for looking into it.
- neolog 5y ago
  Imho, the best chat platform is Zulip. It has channels, named threads, good search, and persistent history. It's also open source. IME, it's way better for communities than Discord, IRC, Slack.
  - initramfs 5y ago
    I've seen Zulip in action and think it's great. I also think Element.io can be helpful (for Matrix)
zepto 5y ago
> Open source projects should rely on open source infrastructure. Can you say why?
- ddevault 5y ago
  It seems tautologically obvious, but I can elaborate anyway. The benefits that led this project to choose an open source approach applies to other domains as well. If they believe in those merits, then they should naturally be apparent in the other systems that they would rely on, such as their collaboration tools. If you want the advantages of open source to proliferate, you have to cast your lot with more open source tools. They're equally suited to the task as, say, Discord. Choosing proprietary tools and platforms can also easily serve to reduce your pool of potential contributors who don't want to use proprietary tools, and especially those who don't want to install proprietary software on their own computers, like the Discord client. Some people simply cannot use something like Discord at all - it has a high hardware requirements floor, poor to mediocre Linux support and completely absent support for systems like BSD, not to mention grave accessibility problems. Only an open protocol enables anyone to build the clients that suit their needs, and are not dependent on the whims of some corporate board of director's determination of your merit (i.e. financial exploitability) as a participant.
  - playpause 5y ago
    As an open source developer I use some tools that are not open source, and which I would not even want to be open source. It doesn’t have to be an ideological battle. It’s just different distribution models with different benefits.
    - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
      > I use some tools that are not open source, and which I would not even want to be open source. Why would you specifically want proprietary software?
      - playpause 5y ago
        I generally prefer open source over proprietary, all else being equal. But there are some software categories where the best OSS examples are still leagues below the best proprietary examples in design and quality, despite many OSS attempts over many years. In such categories, I'd love it if a seriously competitive OSS example emerged, and I'd probably jump on it and start evangelising it. But until that happens, I have to assume there's something about the proprietary model that just works better to produce high quality software in that particular category. Forcing yourself to use a bad piece of software on ideological grounds, or worse still, engaging in doublethink (deluding yourself that it's actually a good piece of software and that everyone else is mistaken) does not help the open source movement. It damages it.
- pabs3 5y ago
  Mako Hill covered this in his essay entitled "Free Software needs Free Tools": https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html
alex-a-soto 5y ago
Hi ddevault, We've created a Zulip server and will be transitioning away from Discord. Zulip Server: https://ei2030.zulipchat.com/register/ https://ei2030.zulipchat.com/register/
- ddevault 5y ago
  Awesome! Thanks!

alex-a-soto 5y ago

Hi, we are working on setting up a Matrix server with bridges to other platforms. If you have suggestions or experience in this, I would appreciate your support.

ddevault 5y ago
I don't have any specific experience with Matrix to share suggestions from, unfortunately. But that's a good solution! Thanks for looking into it.
neolog 5y ago
Imho, the best chat platform is Zulip. It has channels, named threads, good search, and persistent history. It's also open source. IME, it's way better for communities than Discord, IRC, Slack.
- initramfs 5y ago
  I've seen Zulip in action and think it's great. I also think Element.io can be helpful (for Matrix)

zepto 5y ago

> Open source projects should rely on open source infrastructure. Can you say why?

ddevault 5y ago
It seems tautologically obvious, but I can elaborate anyway. The benefits that led this project to choose an open source approach applies to other domains as well. If they believe in those merits, then they should naturally be apparent in the other systems that they would rely on, such as their collaboration tools. If you want the advantages of open source to proliferate, you have to cast your lot with more open source tools. They're equally suited to the task as, say, Discord. Choosing proprietary tools and platforms can also easily serve to reduce your pool of potential contributors who don't want to use proprietary tools, and especially those who don't want to install proprietary software on their own computers, like the Discord client. Some people simply cannot use something like Discord at all - it has a high hardware requirements floor, poor to mediocre Linux support and completely absent support for systems like BSD, not to mention grave accessibility problems. Only an open protocol enables anyone to build the clients that suit their needs, and are not dependent on the whims of some corporate board of director's determination of your merit (i.e. financial exploitability) as a participant.
- playpause 5y ago
  As an open source developer I use some tools that are not open source, and which I would not even want to be open source. It doesn’t have to be an ideological battle. It’s just different distribution models with different benefits.
  - yjftsjthsd-h 5y ago
    > I use some tools that are not open source, and which I would not even want to be open source. Why would you specifically want proprietary software?
    - playpause 5y ago
      I generally prefer open source over proprietary, all else being equal. But there are some software categories where the best OSS examples are still leagues below the best proprietary examples in design and quality, despite many OSS attempts over many years. In such categories, I'd love it if a seriously competitive OSS example emerged, and I'd probably jump on it and start evangelising it. But until that happens, I have to assume there's something about the proprietary model that just works better to produce high quality software in that particular category. Forcing yourself to use a bad piece of software on ideological grounds, or worse still, engaging in doublethink (deluding yourself that it's actually a good piece of software and that everyone else is mistaken) does not help the open source movement. It damages it.
pabs3 5y ago
Mako Hill covered this in his essay entitled "Free Software needs Free Tools": https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html https://mako.cc/writing/hill-free_tools.html

alex-a-soto 5y ago

Hi ddevault, We've created a Zulip server and will be transitioning away from Discord. Zulip Server: https://ei2030.zulipchat.com/register/ https://ei2030.zulipchat.com/register/

ddevault 5y ago
Awesome! Thanks!