4 ms·

As a russian speaker I wish to add that " the big names in Russian literature--going back to Pushkin" are highly overrated in my opinion. So I am not surprised

As a russian speaker I wish to add that " the big names in Russian literature--going back to Pushkin" are highly overrated in my opinion. So I am not surprised about this one too. And usually I can spot good quality of a person by a few minutes of listening just to find out later that I was correct. It has happened many times already to be sure about it. I am using this all the time. I listen to a person for some time and if mhy intuitions says it's good then I digg more. Works like magic.

voldacar 6y ago
I'm very curious about this since I do not speak Russian, yet I have read many Russian authors in translation and generally think highly of their literary culture. Are names like Pushkin, Tolstoy, Chekhov considered overrated in Russia?
- dri_ft 6y ago
  “Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway.” –Vladimir Nabokov. But of course he's being his usual contrarian self here; make of it what you will.
- dmitriid 6y ago
  They are required reading at school. So many people are turned away from them just because all soul is sucked from them by school curriculum demanding you dissect their works and write non-sensical, highly formulaic essays like "Author's position and means of expressing of said position in the novel 'Crime and Punishment'" [1] [1] Examples of essay topics: http://velikayakultura.ru/temy-shkolnyh-sochineniy/temyi-f-m-dostoevskiy http://velikayakultura.ru/temy-shkolnyh-sochineniy/temyi-f-m...
- FpUser 6y ago
  This is of course my personal taste and I could care less what is the official POV on the subject. I do not like Tolstoy at all. Pushkin - I think he is a genius. Calling him overrated I think is not very sincere.
  - lovelyviking 6y ago
    I am very sincere when I call him overrated! (citating from my answer here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26910442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26910442) I think this one is especially highly overrated. When you read the poem of someone you willingly or unwillingly trying to read his mind and vision of the world. When I read this one I am simply disgusted. I have the feeling that he is just cold and cynical to the level that I can't stand it! And the general feeling of fakeness in his writings is to the level of realising that this human being simply doesn't understand a few concepts about this life. The same feeling you have when you are listening to some primitive music and you feel that author simply 'doesn't get it' in the first place. I also can't help but notice some cheap/dirty tricks in his poetry when rhythm doesn't work. Even when I write some 'poetry' as a joke to entertain my friends even I manage to avoid such cheap tricks and then I think that surely some great poet must be able to do it too? Isn't it? I mean small kids when they are missing words to express their thoughts use those tricks to make some rhythm to work. In the poem 'Evgeny Onegin' I've counted a few of those and then I had to stop counting in order to somehow finish the poem. Surely like any author he has something in his poems but I do have a feeling that this author is highly overrated.
- yurish 6y ago
  Considered by whom? Different people have different opinions. I find Dostoevsky's language, for example, quite difficult to read taking some time to get used to. And I don't like this soule digging kind of prose, but other people may love this.
- anticodon 6y ago
  I tend to think that it is almost impossible to translate anything from one language to another. For this, translator have to be native speaker of both languages and live in both cultures simultaneously all the time. There're many books that become much better or much worse after translation. As of me: I've heard several times that Pushkin is overrated, but I always liked his poems and prose. I like Chekhov. I somewhat like Tolstoy. Never understood Dostoyevsky, but I think I've tried to read his books too early, maybe it's time to read them again.
bryanrasmussen 6y ago
as an English speaker I should note there is some ambiguity about the phrase 'going back to', it can be used inclusively or exclusively but most commonly is used inclusively so what you said strongly implies that you also think Pushkin is highly overrated? But even if you were using exclusively it would mean you thought that everyone after Pushkin was highly overrated. Are the people who were averagely rated to be rated poorly then? It seems unlikely to me that so much of a vast nation's literature, for so long, can be so overrated. vastness implies lots of writers and resources.
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  >some ambiguity about the phrase 'going back to' As you can see I was using the phrase of the parent comment which starts with 'A fairly substantial portion of the big names'... So I was referring to this "fairly substantial portion" while eexpressing my opinion that they are highly overrated. >so what you said strongly implies that you also think Pushkin is highly overrated? Yes. I think this one is especially highly overrated. When you read the poem of someone you willingly or unwillingly trying to read his mind and vision of the world. When I read this one I am simply disgusted. I have the feeling that he is just cold and cynical to the level that I can't stand it! And the general feeling of fakeness in his writings is to the level of realising that this human being simply doesn't understand a few concepts about this life. The same feeling you have when you are listening to some primitive music and you feel that author simply 'doesn't get it' in the first place. I also can't help but notice some cheap/dirty tricks in his poetry when rhythm doesn't work. Even when I write some 'poetry' as a joke to entertain my friends even I manage to avoid such cheap tricks and then I think that surely some great poet must be able to do it too? Isn't it? I mean small kids when they are missing words to express their thoughts use those tricks to make some rhythm to work. In the poem 'Evgeny Onegin' I've counted a few of those and then I had to stop counting in order to somehow finish the poem. Surely like any author he has something in his poems but I do have a feeling that this author is highly overrated. >It seems unlikely to me that so much of a vast nation's literature, for so long, can be so overrated. Sure, it seemed unlikely for me too in the beginning. But the more you read and explore the more likely it becomes. Especially when you explore nation's history. You discover a lot of fake there and then you realise that each and every Russian author has to deal with those lies somehow. And if such author wish to preserve some level of sincerely in this writings he has has very painful dilemma. Unresolvable for most of them if you ask me as long as they keep calling themselves 'Russians'. Because if you dig into the history enough you discover that the very term , well , has some ambiguity in it to say the least. One basic thing to notice: How 'Russians' end up being in Moscow while 'Rus' was known to be in Kiev? Thus they are culturally as related to the 'Rus' as 'Saw (some one)' related to 'Saw (as a tool)'. Thus I would also say that the whole 'culture' in my opinion is highly overrated because it is based on primitive fakes, lies, violence and very poor moral standards. Moral standards represent certain understanding of life and Rissian moral standards are not well developed to this very day because they lie and lie and lie. If you ask me 'why?' I would suggest that the enormous efforts to create "much of a vast nation's literature, for so long" were mostly wasted so far because most of the authors simply failed to understand or deliver certain basic concepts and I can't point out even one modern author that does! I wish that someone would show me this one because I would be happy to be wrong and surprised but I doubt it.
wolverine876 6y ago
> And usually I can spot good quality of a person by a few minutes of listening just to find out later that I was correct. It has happened many times already to be sure about it. How do you know it's "correct"? Another hypothesis that fits is that you don't change your opinion when you get more information, you stick with your first instinct. Do others ever disagree with your assessments? What makes you right and them wrong?
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  For instance this way I have discovered: Marvin Minsky,Richard Feynman, Ray Kurzweil, Alan Kay and so on You can argue that I was incorrect but then I would not argue. >What makes you right and them wrong? Nothing makes me right. I am just satisfied with the results of this experimental technique so far .

voldacar 6y ago

I'm very curious about this since I do not speak Russian, yet I have read many Russian authors in translation and generally think highly of their literary culture. Are names like Pushkin, Tolstoy, Chekhov considered overrated in Russia?

dri_ft 6y ago
“Non-Russian readers do not realize two things: that not all Russians love Dostoevsky as much as Americans do, and that most of those Russians who do, venerate him as a mystic and not as an artist. He was a prophet, a claptrap journalist and a slapdash comedian. I admit that some of his scenes, some of his tremendous farcical rows are extraordinarily amusing. But his sensitive murderers and soulful prostitutes are not to be endured for one moment—by this reader anyway.” –Vladimir Nabokov. But of course he's being his usual contrarian self here; make of it what you will.
dmitriid 6y ago
They are required reading at school. So many people are turned away from them just because all soul is sucked from them by school curriculum demanding you dissect their works and write non-sensical, highly formulaic essays like "Author's position and means of expressing of said position in the novel 'Crime and Punishment'" [1] [1] Examples of essay topics: http://velikayakultura.ru/temy-shkolnyh-sochineniy/temyi-f-m-dostoevskiy http://velikayakultura.ru/temy-shkolnyh-sochineniy/temyi-f-m...
FpUser 6y ago
This is of course my personal taste and I could care less what is the official POV on the subject. I do not like Tolstoy at all. Pushkin - I think he is a genius. Calling him overrated I think is not very sincere.
- lovelyviking 6y ago
  I am very sincere when I call him overrated! (citating from my answer here: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26910442 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26910442) I think this one is especially highly overrated. When you read the poem of someone you willingly or unwillingly trying to read his mind and vision of the world. When I read this one I am simply disgusted. I have the feeling that he is just cold and cynical to the level that I can't stand it! And the general feeling of fakeness in his writings is to the level of realising that this human being simply doesn't understand a few concepts about this life. The same feeling you have when you are listening to some primitive music and you feel that author simply 'doesn't get it' in the first place. I also can't help but notice some cheap/dirty tricks in his poetry when rhythm doesn't work. Even when I write some 'poetry' as a joke to entertain my friends even I manage to avoid such cheap tricks and then I think that surely some great poet must be able to do it too? Isn't it? I mean small kids when they are missing words to express their thoughts use those tricks to make some rhythm to work. In the poem 'Evgeny Onegin' I've counted a few of those and then I had to stop counting in order to somehow finish the poem. Surely like any author he has something in his poems but I do have a feeling that this author is highly overrated.
yurish 6y ago
Considered by whom? Different people have different opinions. I find Dostoevsky's language, for example, quite difficult to read taking some time to get used to. And I don't like this soule digging kind of prose, but other people may love this.
anticodon 6y ago
I tend to think that it is almost impossible to translate anything from one language to another. For this, translator have to be native speaker of both languages and live in both cultures simultaneously all the time. There're many books that become much better or much worse after translation. As of me: I've heard several times that Pushkin is overrated, but I always liked his poems and prose. I like Chekhov. I somewhat like Tolstoy. Never understood Dostoyevsky, but I think I've tried to read his books too early, maybe it's time to read them again.

bryanrasmussen 6y ago

as an English speaker I should note there is some ambiguity about the phrase 'going back to', it can be used inclusively or exclusively but most commonly is used inclusively so what you said strongly implies that you also think Pushkin is highly overrated? But even if you were using exclusively it would mean you thought that everyone after Pushkin was highly overrated. Are the people who were averagely rated to be rated poorly then? It seems unlikely to me that so much of a vast nation's literature, for so long, can be so overrated. vastness implies lots of writers and resources.

lovelyviking 6y ago
>some ambiguity about the phrase 'going back to' As you can see I was using the phrase of the parent comment which starts with 'A fairly substantial portion of the big names'... So I was referring to this "fairly substantial portion" while eexpressing my opinion that they are highly overrated. >so what you said strongly implies that you also think Pushkin is highly overrated? Yes. I think this one is especially highly overrated. When you read the poem of someone you willingly or unwillingly trying to read his mind and vision of the world. When I read this one I am simply disgusted. I have the feeling that he is just cold and cynical to the level that I can't stand it! And the general feeling of fakeness in his writings is to the level of realising that this human being simply doesn't understand a few concepts about this life. The same feeling you have when you are listening to some primitive music and you feel that author simply 'doesn't get it' in the first place. I also can't help but notice some cheap/dirty tricks in his poetry when rhythm doesn't work. Even when I write some 'poetry' as a joke to entertain my friends even I manage to avoid such cheap tricks and then I think that surely some great poet must be able to do it too? Isn't it? I mean small kids when they are missing words to express their thoughts use those tricks to make some rhythm to work. In the poem 'Evgeny Onegin' I've counted a few of those and then I had to stop counting in order to somehow finish the poem. Surely like any author he has something in his poems but I do have a feeling that this author is highly overrated. >It seems unlikely to me that so much of a vast nation's literature, for so long, can be so overrated. Sure, it seemed unlikely for me too in the beginning. But the more you read and explore the more likely it becomes. Especially when you explore nation's history. You discover a lot of fake there and then you realise that each and every Russian author has to deal with those lies somehow. And if such author wish to preserve some level of sincerely in this writings he has has very painful dilemma. Unresolvable for most of them if you ask me as long as they keep calling themselves 'Russians'. Because if you dig into the history enough you discover that the very term , well , has some ambiguity in it to say the least. One basic thing to notice: How 'Russians' end up being in Moscow while 'Rus' was known to be in Kiev? Thus they are culturally as related to the 'Rus' as 'Saw (some one)' related to 'Saw (as a tool)'. Thus I would also say that the whole 'culture' in my opinion is highly overrated because it is based on primitive fakes, lies, violence and very poor moral standards. Moral standards represent certain understanding of life and Rissian moral standards are not well developed to this very day because they lie and lie and lie. If you ask me 'why?' I would suggest that the enormous efforts to create "much of a vast nation's literature, for so long" were mostly wasted so far because most of the authors simply failed to understand or deliver certain basic concepts and I can't point out even one modern author that does! I wish that someone would show me this one because I would be happy to be wrong and surprised but I doubt it.

wolverine876 6y ago

> And usually I can spot good quality of a person by a few minutes of listening just to find out later that I was correct. It has happened many times already to be sure about it. How do you know it's "correct"? Another hypothesis that fits is that you don't change your opinion when you get more information, you stick with your first instinct. Do others ever disagree with your assessments? What makes you right and them wrong?

lovelyviking 6y ago
For instance this way I have discovered: Marvin Minsky,Richard Feynman, Ray Kurzweil, Alan Kay and so on You can argue that I was incorrect but then I would not argue. >What makes you right and them wrong? Nothing makes me right. I am just satisfied with the results of this experimental technique so far .