7 ms·

Apple to boost ads business as iPhone changes hurt Facebook

36 points by newbie578 6y ago

cwwc 6y ago
Brilliant. Not necessarily good. But boy.. smart move Apple
- tediousdemise 6y ago
  After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things—terrible, yes, but great. — Mr. Ollivander
hienyimba 6y ago
This move was predicted here on HN when the news of limited ad tracking in iOS 14.5 first surfaced. Let this be a reminder to all of Hacker News that “no corporation is altruistic”. Always assume “evil” by default, until proven otherwise.
- 1cvmask 6y ago
  Precisely. We all saw this coming. It is like when we invade, bomb countries, do regime change for human rights, democracy and liberation. Look how that turned out to Syria, Iraq, Libya, Honduras etc...
- danShumway 6y ago
  It is not always necessary for a company to be altruistic for them to act in my interest. I have a metric ton of criticisms for Apple, and I hope they get slapped with antitrust charges in the future. But the privacy changes we're talking about here are good and should be implemented on other platforms like Android as well. They also represent an important shift in the privacy debate towards consumer control and consumer education that is long overdue and should be praised. So don't be naive, but also don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Apple is definitely going to abuse their position, but there are other ways to handle that problem than letting Facebook have free reign to track whatever they want.
- rchaud 6y ago
  I prefer to see it as 'nothing lasts forever', rather than assuming evil or malice. Apple could afford to be 'the good guy' as long as hardware margins were crushing the competition. But that phase is over. Apple is now also a 'services company', and without the dense MBA-speak of a Stratechery article, that means ads. Can you imagine the iPod interrupting music playback to show you ads for products on iTunes? Well, that's how Apple Music works now, by nagging you to subscribe to its paid service[0]. A $1000 iPhone/iPad can't play audio files out of the box without showing ads. [0] https://the8-bit.com/stop-annoying-apple-music-ads/ https://the8-bit.com/stop-annoying-apple-music-ads/
  - samspenc 6y ago
    > Can you imagine the iPod interrupting music playback to show you ads for products on iTunes? Well, that's how Apple Music works now, by nagging you to subscribe to its paid service. Lol, the Youtube app on my Android phone (and Youtube music) do the exact same thing. Every time I open up the app on my phone, I get a gazillion prompts to sign up for a free trial of some new Youtube feature or service (TV, ads-free, listen to music offline etc). I'm looking into alternative music player apps to replace the Youtube Music app, though I'm not sure how to avoid Youtube itself given that all the interesting content is on there.
    - rchaud 6y ago
      I dumped the Google Music app the second they started co-mingling files that were on storage with songs available on their service. Been using third party apps ever since; currently on Phonograph from F-droid. I use YouTube Vanced w/ microG on Android. No ads. I also have NewPipe that allows for downloading to MP4 or MP3.
1cvmask 6y ago
Cripple the ad business of competitors and double down on your own. Then cover it all in the shroud of privacy and righteousness. Genius marketing. Right up there with Apple talking about their environmental credentials. One of the largest polluters in the world greenwashing themselves by bravely selling chargers separately. Let’s not forget that batteries are one of the most toxic things in the world at scale. And Apple is one of the biggest consumers of it. “He suggested that Apple now wishes to regain this level of control. “If Apple cripples mobile advertising, then the App Store becomes the primary discovery point for apps again, and Apple decides how people use our iPhones, Apple decides which apps are the most popular,” he said.”
- p49k 6y ago
  The privacy changes Apple made were the right thing to do regardless; it’s a question of users having control over what apps are doing with their data. The two things should be treated as separate issues (the latter perhaps should be a topic of upcoming antitrust talks)
  - FridayoLeary 6y ago
    clearly this was Apple's intention from the start. We cannot applaud them for incidentally benefitting users if that wasn't their intention.
  - adamcstephens 6y ago
    If they’re anticompetitive, as you seem to allow, then they should definitely not be treated separately. If Apple is purposefully undermining their competitors to build their own business they should be held to account. Charge the companies and charge the individuals. The threat of jail time will force the decision makers to consider their decisions.
    - p49k 6y ago
      Giving privacy to users is the ethically correct decision. It doesn’t even conflict with the act of ramping up their own ad business (which ostensibly respects the same rules they are applying for Facebook). The antitrust issue would be related to questions around the exclusivity of the App Store and how they benefit from that (including through advertising).
adwi 6y ago
https://archive.is/XQ9Jn https://archive.is/XQ9Jn
joshstrange 6y ago
Clearly no one in these comments read the actual article. They are adding one more ad slot in App Store search results "according to two people familiar with its plans". This is such a non-story it's not even funny. Also what FB was doing and what Apple is suspected of doing here are completely different, it's apples and oranges. FB wants to track you across the web and apps on your phone, Apple wants to add one more ad slot in App Store search results, if you can't seen the huge difference between those two things then I don't know how to help you.
- gajeam 6y ago
  It's important to note that this new ad slot "will allow advertisers to promote their apps across the whole network, rather than in response to specific searches." This is exactly Facebook's game, and the underlying technology they use to target these ads could easily be repurposed for oh, I don't know...a new search engine?
  - p49k 6y ago
    Your comment implies that Apple somehow stopped Facebook from allowing network-wide ads on the Facebook app with the privacy changes, which is not true.
- ffggvv 6y ago
  the article also says “Apple also sells ads in its Stocks and News apps.” so clearly they are planning to expand their ad services a lot of places not just the app store
- FridayoLeary 6y ago
  the point is that that apple is clearly messing up facebook in order to push their own ads. It doesn't matter if it's one ad for apple vs 100 of facebooks. The quantity is almost irrelevant. Anyway, i don't honestly believe that apple will stop with one ad slot. I'm sure the ultimate plan calls for 2 or 3, plus others mixed in with the search results like amazon does. It is a huge deal. Apple is screwing up facebook, in order to promote themselves. I'm shocked if there are no anti trust implications. Facebooks own challenging behaviour needs to be adressed, of course, but by taking this alleged step, Apple is demonstrating that we shouldn't rely on them to do so. Besides, i hate irrelevant ads coming up on my search results, and apple don't even have the miserable excuse of needing the income to maintain their Store.

36 points by newbie578 6y ago

cwwc 6y ago

Brilliant. Not necessarily good. But boy.. smart move Apple

tediousdemise 6y ago
After all, He-Who-Must-Not-Be-Named did great things—terrible, yes, but great. — Mr. Ollivander

hienyimba 6y ago

This move was predicted here on HN when the news of limited ad tracking in iOS 14.5 first surfaced. Let this be a reminder to all of Hacker News that “no corporation is altruistic”. Always assume “evil” by default, until proven otherwise.

1cvmask 6y ago
Precisely. We all saw this coming. It is like when we invade, bomb countries, do regime change for human rights, democracy and liberation. Look how that turned out to Syria, Iraq, Libya, Honduras etc...
danShumway 6y ago
It is not always necessary for a company to be altruistic for them to act in my interest. I have a metric ton of criticisms for Apple, and I hope they get slapped with antitrust charges in the future. But the privacy changes we're talking about here are good and should be implemented on other platforms like Android as well. They also represent an important shift in the privacy debate towards consumer control and consumer education that is long overdue and should be praised. So don't be naive, but also don't look a gift horse in the mouth. Apple is definitely going to abuse their position, but there are other ways to handle that problem than letting Facebook have free reign to track whatever they want.
rchaud 6y ago
I prefer to see it as 'nothing lasts forever', rather than assuming evil or malice. Apple could afford to be 'the good guy' as long as hardware margins were crushing the competition. But that phase is over. Apple is now also a 'services company', and without the dense MBA-speak of a Stratechery article, that means ads. Can you imagine the iPod interrupting music playback to show you ads for products on iTunes? Well, that's how Apple Music works now, by nagging you to subscribe to its paid service[0]. A $1000 iPhone/iPad can't play audio files out of the box without showing ads. [0] https://the8-bit.com/stop-annoying-apple-music-ads/ https://the8-bit.com/stop-annoying-apple-music-ads/
- samspenc 6y ago
  > Can you imagine the iPod interrupting music playback to show you ads for products on iTunes? Well, that's how Apple Music works now, by nagging you to subscribe to its paid service. Lol, the Youtube app on my Android phone (and Youtube music) do the exact same thing. Every time I open up the app on my phone, I get a gazillion prompts to sign up for a free trial of some new Youtube feature or service (TV, ads-free, listen to music offline etc). I'm looking into alternative music player apps to replace the Youtube Music app, though I'm not sure how to avoid Youtube itself given that all the interesting content is on there.
  - rchaud 6y ago
    I dumped the Google Music app the second they started co-mingling files that were on storage with songs available on their service. Been using third party apps ever since; currently on Phonograph from F-droid. I use YouTube Vanced w/ microG on Android. No ads. I also have NewPipe that allows for downloading to MP4 or MP3.

1cvmask 6y ago

Cripple the ad business of competitors and double down on your own. Then cover it all in the shroud of privacy and righteousness. Genius marketing. Right up there with Apple talking about their environmental credentials. One of the largest polluters in the world greenwashing themselves by bravely selling chargers separately. Let’s not forget that batteries are one of the most toxic things in the world at scale. And Apple is one of the biggest consumers of it. “He suggested that Apple now wishes to regain this level of control. “If Apple cripples mobile advertising, then the App Store becomes the primary discovery point for apps again, and Apple decides how people use our iPhones, Apple decides which apps are the most popular,” he said.”

p49k 6y ago
The privacy changes Apple made were the right thing to do regardless; it’s a question of users having control over what apps are doing with their data. The two things should be treated as separate issues (the latter perhaps should be a topic of upcoming antitrust talks)
- FridayoLeary 6y ago
  clearly this was Apple's intention from the start. We cannot applaud them for incidentally benefitting users if that wasn't their intention.
- adamcstephens 6y ago
  If they’re anticompetitive, as you seem to allow, then they should definitely not be treated separately. If Apple is purposefully undermining their competitors to build their own business they should be held to account. Charge the companies and charge the individuals. The threat of jail time will force the decision makers to consider their decisions.
  - p49k 6y ago
    Giving privacy to users is the ethically correct decision. It doesn’t even conflict with the act of ramping up their own ad business (which ostensibly respects the same rules they are applying for Facebook). The antitrust issue would be related to questions around the exclusivity of the App Store and how they benefit from that (including through advertising).

adwi 6y ago

https://archive.is/XQ9Jn https://archive.is/XQ9Jn

joshstrange 6y ago

Clearly no one in these comments read the actual article. They are adding one more ad slot in App Store search results "according to two people familiar with its plans". This is such a non-story it's not even funny. Also what FB was doing and what Apple is suspected of doing here are completely different, it's apples and oranges. FB wants to track you across the web and apps on your phone, Apple wants to add one more ad slot in App Store search results, if you can't seen the huge difference between those two things then I don't know how to help you.

gajeam 6y ago
It's important to note that this new ad slot "will allow advertisers to promote their apps across the whole network, rather than in response to specific searches." This is exactly Facebook's game, and the underlying technology they use to target these ads could easily be repurposed for oh, I don't know...a new search engine?
- p49k 6y ago
  Your comment implies that Apple somehow stopped Facebook from allowing network-wide ads on the Facebook app with the privacy changes, which is not true.
ffggvv 6y ago
the article also says “Apple also sells ads in its Stocks and News apps.” so clearly they are planning to expand their ad services a lot of places not just the app store
FridayoLeary 6y ago
the point is that that apple is clearly messing up facebook in order to push their own ads. It doesn't matter if it's one ad for apple vs 100 of facebooks. The quantity is almost irrelevant. Anyway, i don't honestly believe that apple will stop with one ad slot. I'm sure the ultimate plan calls for 2 or 3, plus others mixed in with the search results like amazon does. It is a huge deal. Apple is screwing up facebook, in order to promote themselves. I'm shocked if there are no anti trust implications. Facebooks own challenging behaviour needs to be adressed, of course, but by taking this alleged step, Apple is demonstrating that we shouldn't rely on them to do so. Besides, i hate irrelevant ads coming up on my search results, and apple don't even have the miserable excuse of needing the income to maintain their Store.