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> I'd say that human trafficking happens exactly because prostitution is illegal Is that based on any research or evidence of any kind? I’m also inclined to in

> I'd say that human trafficking happens exactly because prostitution is illegal Is that based on any research or evidence of any kind? I’m also inclined to invent some extremely absurd opinion on a subject I know nothing about in a field where I have never worked.

tartoran 6y ago
No, it's based on common sense. Do you not see that criminalizing prostitution did not and continues to not do anything positive for these sex workers? Do I need to have worked in this field to have an opinion? Really? What's your argument for keeping prostitution illegal? And have you worked in the field?
- bjourne 6y ago
  Sorry, you can't use "common sense" as an argument for hotly contested claims. Here is a paper from 2012 that claims that legalized prostitution significantly increases human trafficking: > This paper investigates the impact of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows. According to economic theory, there are two opposing effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalized prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market,increasing human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked women as legal prostitutes are favored over trafficked ones. Our empirical analysis for a cross-section of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, countries where prostitution is legal experience larger reported human trafficking inflows. https://www.diw.de/documents/publikationen/73/diw_01.c.405653.de/diw_econsec0071.pdf https://www.diw.de/documents/publikationen/73/diw_01.c.40565...
  - tartoran 6y ago
    This does not make much sense to me. Keeping prostitution illegal and criminalising it sends both the sexworkers and their clients onto the black market. There, sex workers have no rights. Sex workers can’t even complain when abused because they’d get punished a second time by authorities. I don’t really know how a study like that can can be conducted with a phenomenon that is hidden from the public view. https://harvardcrcl.org/to-protect-women-legalize-prostitution/ https://harvardcrcl.org/to-protect-women-legalize-prostituti...
    - bjourne 6y ago
      Ok, perhaps it doesn't make sense to you because you are not an expert in the subject? Your objection is akin to a criminologist claiming that some security feature in the Linux kernel doesn't make much sense to them.
      - tartoran 6y ago
        You aren't an expert on the subject either. Not sure what your agenda is but I wish you had some common sense just for a few seconds. Prostitutes will continue their work legally or illegally, there were numerous unsuccessful attempts to stop them. There are n reasons why it's better if the whole sex industry leaves the underground shady world, from workers rights, less abuse, taxation, pensions, healthcare and so on. Let it sink in for a bit, it doesn't have to be written in a paper for you to attempt to make this mental exercise, does it?
        bjourne 6y ago
        No, I'm not an expert. Therefore I cite studies conducted by people who are experts. The available evidence indicates that legalized prostitution increases sex trafficking. Look at Germany and Netherlands. In both countries the number of victims of sex trafficking grew rapidly after they legalized prostitution. I.e evidence is against you. Stop being wrong. Note that most victims of sex trafficking are also illegal aliens. Thus legalized prostitution doesn't help them since they would also be deported. The main benefactors of legalized prostitution are the Johns who no longer have to suffer a social stigma from purchasing sex.
        tartoran 6y ago
        You are not an expert but you are also lacking common sense and you’re stuck up on one paper. You can actually find a paper backing up quite a few opposing arguments and there are plenty of papers, if that’s the only type of thing you ingest, to claim that legalizing prostitution would bring a lot of benefits.
- austincheney 6y ago
  Military personnel are required take annual training on trafficking in persons.
- austincheney 6y ago
  I found some common sense: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/trouble-in-paradise-rise-and-fall-of-germany-brothel-king-jurgen-rudloff https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/t...

tartoran 6y ago

No, it's based on common sense. Do you not see that criminalizing prostitution did not and continues to not do anything positive for these sex workers? Do I need to have worked in this field to have an opinion? Really? What's your argument for keeping prostitution illegal? And have you worked in the field?

bjourne 6y ago
Sorry, you can't use "common sense" as an argument for hotly contested claims. Here is a paper from 2012 that claims that legalized prostitution significantly increases human trafficking: > This paper investigates the impact of legalized prostitution on human trafficking inflows. According to economic theory, there are two opposing effects of unknown magnitude. The scale effect of legalized prostitution leads to an expansion of the prostitution market,increasing human trafficking, while the substitution effect reduces demand for trafficked women as legal prostitutes are favored over trafficked ones. Our empirical analysis for a cross-section of up to 150 countries shows that the scale effect dominates the substitution effect. On average, countries where prostitution is legal experience larger reported human trafficking inflows. https://www.diw.de/documents/publikationen/73/diw_01.c.405653.de/diw_econsec0071.pdf https://www.diw.de/documents/publikationen/73/diw_01.c.40565...
- tartoran 6y ago
  This does not make much sense to me. Keeping prostitution illegal and criminalising it sends both the sexworkers and their clients onto the black market. There, sex workers have no rights. Sex workers can’t even complain when abused because they’d get punished a second time by authorities. I don’t really know how a study like that can can be conducted with a phenomenon that is hidden from the public view. https://harvardcrcl.org/to-protect-women-legalize-prostitution/ https://harvardcrcl.org/to-protect-women-legalize-prostituti...
  - bjourne 6y ago
    Ok, perhaps it doesn't make sense to you because you are not an expert in the subject? Your objection is akin to a criminologist claiming that some security feature in the Linux kernel doesn't make much sense to them.
    - tartoran 6y ago
      You aren't an expert on the subject either. Not sure what your agenda is but I wish you had some common sense just for a few seconds. Prostitutes will continue their work legally or illegally, there were numerous unsuccessful attempts to stop them. There are n reasons why it's better if the whole sex industry leaves the underground shady world, from workers rights, less abuse, taxation, pensions, healthcare and so on. Let it sink in for a bit, it doesn't have to be written in a paper for you to attempt to make this mental exercise, does it?
      - bjourne 6y ago
        No, I'm not an expert. Therefore I cite studies conducted by people who are experts. The available evidence indicates that legalized prostitution increases sex trafficking. Look at Germany and Netherlands. In both countries the number of victims of sex trafficking grew rapidly after they legalized prostitution. I.e evidence is against you. Stop being wrong. Note that most victims of sex trafficking are also illegal aliens. Thus legalized prostitution doesn't help them since they would also be deported. The main benefactors of legalized prostitution are the Johns who no longer have to suffer a social stigma from purchasing sex.
        tartoran 6y ago
        You are not an expert but you are also lacking common sense and you’re stuck up on one paper. You can actually find a paper backing up quite a few opposing arguments and there are plenty of papers, if that’s the only type of thing you ingest, to claim that legalizing prostitution would bring a lot of benefits.
austincheney 6y ago
Military personnel are required take annual training on trafficking in persons.
austincheney 6y ago
I found some common sense: https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/trouble-in-paradise-rise-and-fall-of-germany-brothel-king-jurgen-rudloff https://www.theguardian.com/global-development/2019/jun/22/t...