4 ms·

> I believe it is the only just punishment for murder; that ALL murderers should be executed; That's such a twisted mind you have there.

spoonjim 6y ago
Why does a murderer deserve another breath?
- cies 6y ago
  Just lacked therapy. Murderer was a cop, and made a mistake. Murderer was provoked. Family of murderee forgives murderer. Murderee was merely an 3 months old embryo. Evidence not 100% conclusive. Murderer claims self defense. I can continue. The world is messy. Black white thinking will not do it justice. Not that I agree with these reasons in all circumstances. I just want to point out there are reasons to treat a murderer less harsh.
- anoncake 6y ago
  They're human. Revenge has no place in civilized society.
  - spoonjim 6y ago
    “Revenge has no place in a civilized society” is just an opinion. Mine is different. I don’t believe a society is civilized if it treats murderers with anything less than the most extreme vengeance.
    - anoncake 6y ago
      Then the world would be better off without you.
      - spoonjim 6y ago
        That may be, but I can tell you without whom the world would be MUCH better off: murderers.
        anoncake 6y ago
        Which is why incarceration exists. The death penalty was necessary back when society simply couldn't afford prisons, but not today.
  - cies 6y ago
    Which civilized society? In which baby Bush "finishes off" what papa Bush started?
    - deleted 6y ago
      [deleted]
    - anoncake 6y ago
      What kind of argument is this? You're already barbarians so might as well be consistent?
      - cies 6y ago
        It's more like: I see a pattern.
- chki 6y ago
  Because I care deeply about everybody – no matter what they have done. Because forgiveness and love are my core values, even if it doesn't usually show up in my day to day life. Because revenge is always bad. Torturing somebody no matter their crime would go fundamentally against those few things that I feel very deeply about – not that different from loving my family or caring about the longterm wellbeing of humanity. If that sounds irrational to you: That's because it is irrational. Whether we choose to end another persons life is fundamental in our understanding of life itself, which is highly subjective. But your belief that we should kill other humans is also irrational and subjective. Edit: Also this paragraph in your first answer >> I also think that pain should be part of the death penalty... that a murderer doesn’t deserve a quick and painless death but rather a healthy period of searing agony to experience the anguish that they themselves wrought on another." is actually terrifying to me. Even reading it causes me some physical discomfort.
  - throwaway3699 6y ago
    What if your love and forgiveness allow a killer to strike again? I share similar values but I'm prepared to compromise on them if necessary. Even incarceration is a compromise. Values are ideals, not absolutes.
    - chki 6y ago
      I agree that incarceration is a necessary compromise and of course I don't want a killer to strike again. Forgiveness doesn't mean that I'm against all punishment. But I think that it means there always has to be a chance for somebody to change – no matter what they did. Even life sentences without any chance of parole should not be possible: if somebody is no longer a danger to society they should be allowed to return at some point.
- dang 6y ago
  Please don't post flamebait or take HN threads into generic ideological arguments. They are exceedingly repetitive and convince no one—they just get people activated and angry. This place is for curious conversation. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
capableweb 6y ago
I can somehow understand that argument, "Eye for an eye" and all that, kind of makes sense. Later on is where things gets scary though, where even death is not enough and it needs to be agonized death! > I also think that pain should be part of the death penalty [...] rather a healthy period of searing agony It is beyond fucked up to not only wanting to execute people but also make sure they feel pain while doing so.
dang 6y ago
Whoa - going straight to personal attack like that is not allowed here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Look at it this way: comments like what you posted here take the community further into hell war, which destroys the community. Even if you don't feel you owe the other commenter better, you definitely owe the community better if you're participating in it. The ecosystem is fragile—we all need to protect it. Setting it on fire because of how wrong you feel someone is is not a good idea. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.

spoonjim 6y ago

Why does a murderer deserve another breath?

cies 6y ago
Just lacked therapy. Murderer was a cop, and made a mistake. Murderer was provoked. Family of murderee forgives murderer. Murderee was merely an 3 months old embryo. Evidence not 100% conclusive. Murderer claims self defense. I can continue. The world is messy. Black white thinking will not do it justice. Not that I agree with these reasons in all circumstances. I just want to point out there are reasons to treat a murderer less harsh.
anoncake 6y ago
They're human. Revenge has no place in civilized society.
- spoonjim 6y ago
  “Revenge has no place in a civilized society” is just an opinion. Mine is different. I don’t believe a society is civilized if it treats murderers with anything less than the most extreme vengeance.
  - anoncake 6y ago
    Then the world would be better off without you.
    - spoonjim 6y ago
      That may be, but I can tell you without whom the world would be MUCH better off: murderers.
      - anoncake 6y ago
        Which is why incarceration exists. The death penalty was necessary back when society simply couldn't afford prisons, but not today.
- cies 6y ago
  Which civilized society? In which baby Bush "finishes off" what papa Bush started?
  - deleted 6y ago
    [deleted]
  - anoncake 6y ago
    What kind of argument is this? You're already barbarians so might as well be consistent?
    - cies 6y ago
      It's more like: I see a pattern.
chki 6y ago
Because I care deeply about everybody – no matter what they have done. Because forgiveness and love are my core values, even if it doesn't usually show up in my day to day life. Because revenge is always bad. Torturing somebody no matter their crime would go fundamentally against those few things that I feel very deeply about – not that different from loving my family or caring about the longterm wellbeing of humanity. If that sounds irrational to you: That's because it is irrational. Whether we choose to end another persons life is fundamental in our understanding of life itself, which is highly subjective. But your belief that we should kill other humans is also irrational and subjective. Edit: Also this paragraph in your first answer >> I also think that pain should be part of the death penalty... that a murderer doesn’t deserve a quick and painless death but rather a healthy period of searing agony to experience the anguish that they themselves wrought on another." is actually terrifying to me. Even reading it causes me some physical discomfort.
- throwaway3699 6y ago
  What if your love and forgiveness allow a killer to strike again? I share similar values but I'm prepared to compromise on them if necessary. Even incarceration is a compromise. Values are ideals, not absolutes.
  - chki 6y ago
    I agree that incarceration is a necessary compromise and of course I don't want a killer to strike again. Forgiveness doesn't mean that I'm against all punishment. But I think that it means there always has to be a chance for somebody to change – no matter what they did. Even life sentences without any chance of parole should not be possible: if somebody is no longer a danger to society they should be allowed to return at some point.
dang 6y ago
Please don't post flamebait or take HN threads into generic ideological arguments. They are exceedingly repetitive and convince no one—they just get people activated and angry. This place is for curious conversation. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

capableweb 6y ago

I can somehow understand that argument, "Eye for an eye" and all that, kind of makes sense. Later on is where things gets scary though, where even death is not enough and it needs to be agonized death! > I also think that pain should be part of the death penalty [...] rather a healthy period of searing agony It is beyond fucked up to not only wanting to execute people but also make sure they feel pain while doing so.

dang 6y ago

Whoa - going straight to personal attack like that is not allowed here, regardless of how wrong someone is or you feel they are. Look at it this way: comments like what you posted here take the community further into hell war, which destroys the community. Even if you don't feel you owe the other commenter better, you definitely owe the community better if you're participating in it. The ecosystem is fragile—we all need to protect it. Setting it on fire because of how wrong you feel someone is is not a good idea. If you wouldn't mind reviewing https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html and taking the intended spirit of the site more to heart, we'd be grateful.