3 ms·

I get it, but there are just so many holes in this line of thinking. Once it becomes legal, the supply goes up, prices go down and it won't "get you through co

by gregw2 5y ago

I get it, but there are just so many holes in this line of thinking. Once it becomes legal, the supply goes up, prices go down and it won't "get you through college". Plus I don't see why our decisions on prostitution have to be driven by the economic policies that have increased college tuition 2-3x faster than the rate of inflation for 30 years. Also you will have corporations form to market, manipulate and addict people to their "product". Do we really want to go there? Thailand and Amsterdam and Las Vegas are fine places (sorta) but they dont provide the joy one would hope from the "empowering" you think is so great. Also I would think in an era of COVID awareness people should consider the public health reasons from STDs (but not just those) why sex work will overall lead to more sickness and death if we promulgate it via market mechanisms. Overall are sickness and death likely to increase or decrease? I'm not sure where you are going with your argument (speculation? sources?) that a lot of men get married just to have sex. If they want purely the sexual pleasure there are plenty of ways to get that that are a lot easier and less consuming than getting married! (Porn, devices, etc) If they want companionship over time, you don't really get that through prostitution. (Escort/rent-a-dates are legal as are hiring assistants). If they want kids and to raise them prostitution won't help. If it's not just orgasms which men want and what men is the appearance of a woman being interested in them, smiling, acting sexy per webcam culture... but what the woman wants is money, I get that if we legalize prostitution we enable that illusion for the man and economic power for the woman but what is the great benefit of that? We undercut our efforts for women/daughters to get paid equally for their minds to create and instead push them into selling their bodies and abilities to deceive men as part of their job. OK we've created a market, but to what end? Look, I get that people think the status quo on this should be reconsidered but it looks like more rich people wanting to use their money to get whatever they want without consideration of the people servicing them, hoping that some anecdotes of trickle down "success" hide the misery of the system they want to promulgate. Sorry for the rant. Nothing personal.

waterhouse 5y ago
> Once it becomes legal, the supply goes up, prices go down Then I guess fewer people will decide to do it for economic reasons, and you'll be pleased with that? Seems ok. > Plus I don't see why our decisions on prostitution have to be driven by the economic policies that have increased college tuition 2-3x faster than the rate of inflation for 30 years. College was an example of something expensive that a lot of people want to pay for. (I do think college is becoming a less worthwhile proposition as time goes on, and didn't go myself.) Buying a car would be another example. My argument really doesn't depend on why people want to earn money, only that there exists a good reason. > Also you will have corporations form to market, manipulate and addict people to their "product". That, as a potential concern, applies to every product ever. Only in this case the sex drive is created by biology. And actually, the whole concept of "sex sells" means that they put sexy people all over the media already; and there are already sex-focused ads to try to get people to pay for porn and stuff; I don't think having ads for prostitution would make a difference here. > STDs Have you read about the precautions they take? I quote from a 2005 article about Nevada's Bunny Ranch: "According to law, condom use is mandatory for sex and oral sex as is periodic testing [looks like the period is "weekly"] for brothel employees. Since 1986, when mandatory HIV testing began, not a single brothel prostitute has tested positive." Also: "In the room, the men are inspected under a bright light to check for any visual evidence of sexually transmitted diseases." I think some street prostitutes but not all require condoms, and I really doubt that the majority of them get tested weekly. (The same can be said of people who go to nightclubs and hook up with a stranger for the night.) So it seems plausible that legalizing would lead to better safety. > I'm not sure where you are going with your argument (speculation? sources?) that a lot of men get married just to have sex. I said they get into relationships, not marriage. (There probably are some from very conservative backgrounds who believe in no sex before marriage [which also likely correlates with considering masturbation and/or porn to be a sin] who do end up marrying primarily for sex; but otherwise, yes, it's clearly a bad idea.) > If they want ... Lots of guys want lots of different things from a prostitute. Some want the pleasure of orgasm (and find it better than what they can get via masturbation). Some have never had sex and want to get some experience. Some want to have sex with a particular kind of woman. Some have an embarrassing fetish they want to explore. Some pay for her time and actually just cuddle with her. I'm sure there's a lot more. > We undercut our efforts for women/daughters to get paid equally for their minds to create and instead push them into selling their bodies and abilities to deceive men Who said anything about pushing them into prostitution? I just want the option to be there, for those who think it suits them. I am absolutely against pushing anyone into a career path they're uncomfortable with. (If economic necessity pushes them to choose a path, and this seems like a bad option but the least bad one, then, well, taking that option away would make things even worse.) > it looks like more rich people wanting to use their money to get whatever they want without consideration of the people servicing them The rich can already do that, either through their network if they have a decent one, or just by traveling to a place where it is legal. This would be more about making it more available and safe for the middle and lower classes. Look. Fundamentally, my stance is that people have a right to do what they want with their bodies, which includes selling sexual services. Using the force of law to prevent them from doing that violates their rights. You would need a very strong argument ("this will cause terrible harm") to justify such a violation. But when I examine the consequences, they seem to me "probably positive overall". On the personal angle, if it were legalized in my area, I'd consider trying it out (as a customer), but I'm paranoid enough about incurable STDs that even with their precautions I'd likely avoid it. (FYI, recreational drugs are another thing that I'm very much in favor of legalizing—for similar rights-based reasons—but have no intention to take advantage of myself.) And if I did it, I would certainly want someone who seemed enthusiastic and comfortable with the whole thing; if I got the impression that she really didn't like it but was putting up with it, that would make me rather uncomfortable with the situation.

by gregw2 5y ago

waterhouse 5y ago

> Once it becomes legal, the supply goes up, prices go down Then I guess fewer people will decide to do it for economic reasons, and you'll be pleased with that? Seems ok. > Plus I don't see why our decisions on prostitution have to be driven by the economic policies that have increased college tuition 2-3x faster than the rate of inflation for 30 years. College was an example of something expensive that a lot of people want to pay for. (I do think college is becoming a less worthwhile proposition as time goes on, and didn't go myself.) Buying a car would be another example. My argument really doesn't depend on why people want to earn money, only that there exists a good reason. > Also you will have corporations form to market, manipulate and addict people to their "product". That, as a potential concern, applies to every product ever. Only in this case the sex drive is created by biology. And actually, the whole concept of "sex sells" means that they put sexy people all over the media already; and there are already sex-focused ads to try to get people to pay for porn and stuff; I don't think having ads for prostitution would make a difference here. > STDs Have you read about the precautions they take? I quote from a 2005 article about Nevada's Bunny Ranch: "According to law, condom use is mandatory for sex and oral sex as is periodic testing [looks like the period is "weekly"] for brothel employees. Since 1986, when mandatory HIV testing began, not a single brothel prostitute has tested positive." Also: "In the room, the men are inspected under a bright light to check for any visual evidence of sexually transmitted diseases." I think some street prostitutes but not all require condoms, and I really doubt that the majority of them get tested weekly. (The same can be said of people who go to nightclubs and hook up with a stranger for the night.) So it seems plausible that legalizing would lead to better safety. > I'm not sure where you are going with your argument (speculation? sources?) that a lot of men get married just to have sex. I said they get into relationships, not marriage. (There probably are some from very conservative backgrounds who believe in no sex before marriage [which also likely correlates with considering masturbation and/or porn to be a sin] who do end up marrying primarily for sex; but otherwise, yes, it's clearly a bad idea.) > If they want ... Lots of guys want lots of different things from a prostitute. Some want the pleasure of orgasm (and find it better than what they can get via masturbation). Some have never had sex and want to get some experience. Some want to have sex with a particular kind of woman. Some have an embarrassing fetish they want to explore. Some pay for her time and actually just cuddle with her. I'm sure there's a lot more. > We undercut our efforts for women/daughters to get paid equally for their minds to create and instead push them into selling their bodies and abilities to deceive men Who said anything about pushing them into prostitution? I just want the option to be there, for those who think it suits them. I am absolutely against pushing anyone into a career path they're uncomfortable with. (If economic necessity pushes them to choose a path, and this seems like a bad option but the least bad one, then, well, taking that option away would make things even worse.) > it looks like more rich people wanting to use their money to get whatever they want without consideration of the people servicing them The rich can already do that, either through their network if they have a decent one, or just by traveling to a place where it is legal. This would be more about making it more available and safe for the middle and lower classes. Look. Fundamentally, my stance is that people have a right to do what they want with their bodies, which includes selling sexual services. Using the force of law to prevent them from doing that violates their rights. You would need a very strong argument ("this will cause terrible harm") to justify such a violation. But when I examine the consequences, they seem to me "probably positive overall". On the personal angle, if it were legalized in my area, I'd consider trying it out (as a customer), but I'm paranoid enough about incurable STDs that even with their precautions I'd likely avoid it. (FYI, recreational drugs are another thing that I'm very much in favor of legalizing—for similar rights-based reasons—but have no intention to take advantage of myself.) And if I did it, I would certainly want someone who seemed enthusiastic and comfortable with the whole thing; if I got the impression that she really didn't like it but was putting up with it, that would make me rather uncomfortable with the situation.