4 ms·

> A random employee threat to a manager isn’t normally swept under the carpet Do you think that managers in Calabria actually check if the threat came from an

by Udik 5y ago

> A random employee threat to a manager isn’t normally swept under the carpet Do you think that managers in Calabria actually check if the threat came from an actual 'ndrangheta affiliate or not? I think it's simply a matter of "looking dangerous" and the idea (probably correct) that reporting to the police is much more risky than just doing nothing. Anyone who has little to lose can behave in the same threatening way where there is no repercussion to be feared.

capableweb 5y ago
Lying about being in the mafia can have grave consequences, obviously. Especially if there is a big media storm about it and you happen to live in the vicinity. I think it's pretty normal to give them "benefit of doubt" if they claim to be in any mafia, and stay clear of them, no matter if you think they actually are in the mafia or not.
- Udik 5y ago
  > Lying about being in the mafia can have grave consequences, obviously What do you mean? I hope you don’t seriously think that there is a mafia entity that is going around chasing people who casually claim to be part of it. Except for the higher-ups, the mafia is just a loose social network of people who don't mind using intimidation for personal gain. You don't even need (or want) to claim you're part of it, just act as if you're dangerous. The only risk you have (apart from that of the proper authorities) is that of trying to intimidate someone who is even better connected in that social network than you are.
  - jrochkind1 5y ago
    You are speaking specifically of the Italian mafia in the region the news report is from, you have familiarity of it?
  - TomSwirly 5y ago
    > I hope you don’t seriously think that there is a mafia entity that is going around chasing people who casually claim to be part of it. Absolutely, that is the case. > Except for the higher-ups, the mafia is just a loose social network of people who don't mind using intimidation for personal gain. You are not right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta - tightly organized, hierarchical organization that controls about 3% of Italy's GDP and ruthlessly enforces its dominion with brutal turf wars.
    - Udik 5y ago
      Look, this is from an analysis document presented at the Italian parliament: "The criminal density of Calabria [region where the 'ndrangheta comes from], when comparing the numbers of official affiliates to the population, is of 27%. [...] The percentage is worrisome not only because more than 1/4 of the population is involved, in different ways, in criminal activities; but also because around these groups always gravitate thousands of "white collar workers", many of whom beyond suspicion." [1] So 27% of the population is involved directly, even more are involved in a supporting/ collateral role. Do you really think that they all know who is who and that they're all enrolled in a precise hierarchical structure? Do you think that in this kind of environment to threaten someone you need a certificate? You might not be part of one of the families (because the 'ndrangheta is mostly families), but you might be good friend of someone who is, you might have done some job for them and know them casually. With those percentages, almost everyone who is local can probably claim to have some connection with someone who you'd not want to anger. I remember this funny little anecdote by some anti-mafia investigator in Italy (though he was concerned with Camorra, the Neapolitan version of it): "When some prominent local mafiosi arrive in Naples with the ferry boat, before disembarking they remove their golden Rolex watches from their wrists, because they know that otherwise they'll be robbed". This is the climate. [1] https://www.parlamento.it/parlam/bicam/14/Antimafia/documenti/relazann2003II.pdf https://www.parlamento.it/parlam/bicam/14/Antimafia/document.... (page 4)

by Udik 5y ago

capableweb 5y ago

Lying about being in the mafia can have grave consequences, obviously. Especially if there is a big media storm about it and you happen to live in the vicinity. I think it's pretty normal to give them "benefit of doubt" if they claim to be in any mafia, and stay clear of them, no matter if you think they actually are in the mafia or not.

Udik 5y ago
> Lying about being in the mafia can have grave consequences, obviously What do you mean? I hope you don’t seriously think that there is a mafia entity that is going around chasing people who casually claim to be part of it. Except for the higher-ups, the mafia is just a loose social network of people who don't mind using intimidation for personal gain. You don't even need (or want) to claim you're part of it, just act as if you're dangerous. The only risk you have (apart from that of the proper authorities) is that of trying to intimidate someone who is even better connected in that social network than you are.
- jrochkind1 5y ago
  You are speaking specifically of the Italian mafia in the region the news report is from, you have familiarity of it?
- TomSwirly 5y ago
  > I hope you don’t seriously think that there is a mafia entity that is going around chasing people who casually claim to be part of it. Absolutely, that is the case. > Except for the higher-ups, the mafia is just a loose social network of people who don't mind using intimidation for personal gain. You are not right. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%27Ndrangheta - tightly organized, hierarchical organization that controls about 3% of Italy's GDP and ruthlessly enforces its dominion with brutal turf wars.
  - Udik 5y ago
    Look, this is from an analysis document presented at the Italian parliament: "The criminal density of Calabria [region where the 'ndrangheta comes from], when comparing the numbers of official affiliates to the population, is of 27%. [...] The percentage is worrisome not only because more than 1/4 of the population is involved, in different ways, in criminal activities; but also because around these groups always gravitate thousands of "white collar workers", many of whom beyond suspicion." [1] So 27% of the population is involved directly, even more are involved in a supporting/ collateral role. Do you really think that they all know who is who and that they're all enrolled in a precise hierarchical structure? Do you think that in this kind of environment to threaten someone you need a certificate? You might not be part of one of the families (because the 'ndrangheta is mostly families), but you might be good friend of someone who is, you might have done some job for them and know them casually. With those percentages, almost everyone who is local can probably claim to have some connection with someone who you'd not want to anger. I remember this funny little anecdote by some anti-mafia investigator in Italy (though he was concerned with Camorra, the Neapolitan version of it): "When some prominent local mafiosi arrive in Naples with the ferry boat, before disembarking they remove their golden Rolex watches from their wrists, because they know that otherwise they'll be robbed". This is the climate. [1] https://www.parlamento.it/parlam/bicam/14/Antimafia/documenti/relazann2003II.pdf https://www.parlamento.it/parlam/bicam/14/Antimafia/document.... (page 4)