4 ms·

>Game industry experience? Baldurs Gate or the original Witcher teams had zero of it also in the beginning. I agree with the spirit of your post but these are

>Game industry experience? Baldurs Gate or the original Witcher teams had zero of it also in the beginning. I agree with the spirit of your post but these are bad examples. Baldur's Gate wasn't Bioware's first game and the first game in The Witcher series wasn't exactly received as a masterpiece. Single Player RPGs and Minecraft style games can easily be simple enough to develop with a small team. So when people are criticizing the size of the team and lack of experience of that tiny team, it has to be taken in context with the type of game they are trying to develop. What's more important than game industry experience is game dev experience or even software experience in general. Even if that experience is as a hobbyist, it can make a big difference in my confidence level for a project. So my questions would be, what did these guys do before now, what kinds of projects have they worked on, etc.

fsloth 6y ago
Yes, you are quite right. My point was past performance is not always a good indicator of future human potential.
- koonsolo 6y ago
  True. Claiming you are going to make a huge MMO when you are an inexperienced game developer is pretty common. Therefore we also know at which stage of Dunning Kruger they are.
  - chevill 6y ago
    >Claiming you are going to make a huge MMO when you are an inexperienced game developer is pretty common. Yea its so common its basically a meme that the first question a beginner asks when they join /r/gamedev or another gamedev community is "How do I make an MMO?"
  - fsloth 6y ago
    I have no idea at which point of Dunning Kruger they are. For example have they digested all of the technical material available on MMO:s available publicly? If they have and have fair software engineering savvy that puts them already way ahead. Past failures by third party actors should not be taken as discouragement for startups. To take a blunt example, before Elon Musk started SpaceX there were failed rocket companies started by millionaires all of whom dreamed of commoditizing space... Sure, their success is improbable. But in this context longshots and improbable bets are the whole point.
    - koonsolo 6y ago
      > For example have they digested all of the technical material available on MMO:s available publicly? If they have and have fair software engineering savvy that puts them already way ahead. I can see you have no experience in game development. Let me explain: with 2 people and a budget of 200K you can make a tiny indie game. With a team of 15 experienced game developers you can make a single player RPG. MMO's are built by huge companies, with lots of experience under their belt. Newbies that want to build an MMO is a running joke in game dev communities. It basically says you are so stupid that you don't even realize how stupid you are.
      - rlonn 6y ago
        I agree with previous commenter: it's impossible to make an MMO on a shoestring budget. Until someone does it. Saying something is impossible because you've seen many failures indicates a lack of imagination, not wisdom.
        koonsolo 6y ago
        Ok, here are some examples: - Levitation through meditation. - An 8 year old kid watching karate kid and then beating an MMA fighter. - Finding underground water with a stick The MMO falls into this realm. Unless of course they invented an AI that can develop an MMO. But there is no indication of this last part.
        meheleventyone 6y ago
        It’s entirely possible, there are a bunch of small team MMO games. There’s even a few one man efforts. For example familiars.io. But the important thing is their scopes are hugely reduced from the promises made by this project.
        koonsolo 6y ago
        Exactly. As a small team, the main thing is to decide the things that you will drop. I remember Powerhoof Games (a 2 person team) had to downgrade their pixelated graphics on Crawl, so they could have really awesome animations. Think about that: deciding to have some awesome animations in there, and therefore also deciding your pixelated graphics will be very flat and basic.
- chevill 6y ago
  >Yes, you are quite right. My point was past performance is not always a good indicator of future human potential. I agree. People can shift into an entirely different field and get fairly good at it quicker than many would imagine. Once you've proven successful in one intellectual pursuit the biggest factor in becoming proficient in another is passion, because passion leads to putting in the work. In this particular case I just think they may not realize the scope of the work their game idea is going to involve due to their lack of experience. I wish them well and if its looking good by the time it hits beta I'll probably be trying it out.

fsloth 6y ago

Yes, you are quite right. My point was past performance is not always a good indicator of future human potential.

koonsolo 6y ago
True. Claiming you are going to make a huge MMO when you are an inexperienced game developer is pretty common. Therefore we also know at which stage of Dunning Kruger they are.
- chevill 6y ago
  >Claiming you are going to make a huge MMO when you are an inexperienced game developer is pretty common. Yea its so common its basically a meme that the first question a beginner asks when they join /r/gamedev or another gamedev community is "How do I make an MMO?"
- fsloth 6y ago
  I have no idea at which point of Dunning Kruger they are. For example have they digested all of the technical material available on MMO:s available publicly? If they have and have fair software engineering savvy that puts them already way ahead. Past failures by third party actors should not be taken as discouragement for startups. To take a blunt example, before Elon Musk started SpaceX there were failed rocket companies started by millionaires all of whom dreamed of commoditizing space... Sure, their success is improbable. But in this context longshots and improbable bets are the whole point.
  - koonsolo 6y ago
    > For example have they digested all of the technical material available on MMO:s available publicly? If they have and have fair software engineering savvy that puts them already way ahead. I can see you have no experience in game development. Let me explain: with 2 people and a budget of 200K you can make a tiny indie game. With a team of 15 experienced game developers you can make a single player RPG. MMO's are built by huge companies, with lots of experience under their belt. Newbies that want to build an MMO is a running joke in game dev communities. It basically says you are so stupid that you don't even realize how stupid you are.
    - rlonn 6y ago
      I agree with previous commenter: it's impossible to make an MMO on a shoestring budget. Until someone does it. Saying something is impossible because you've seen many failures indicates a lack of imagination, not wisdom.
      - koonsolo 6y ago
        Ok, here are some examples: - Levitation through meditation. - An 8 year old kid watching karate kid and then beating an MMA fighter. - Finding underground water with a stick The MMO falls into this realm. Unless of course they invented an AI that can develop an MMO. But there is no indication of this last part.
      - meheleventyone 6y ago
        It’s entirely possible, there are a bunch of small team MMO games. There’s even a few one man efforts. For example familiars.io. But the important thing is their scopes are hugely reduced from the promises made by this project.
        koonsolo 6y ago
        Exactly. As a small team, the main thing is to decide the things that you will drop. I remember Powerhoof Games (a 2 person team) had to downgrade their pixelated graphics on Crawl, so they could have really awesome animations. Think about that: deciding to have some awesome animations in there, and therefore also deciding your pixelated graphics will be very flat and basic.
chevill 6y ago
>Yes, you are quite right. My point was past performance is not always a good indicator of future human potential. I agree. People can shift into an entirely different field and get fairly good at it quicker than many would imagine. Once you've proven successful in one intellectual pursuit the biggest factor in becoming proficient in another is passion, because passion leads to putting in the work. In this particular case I just think they may not realize the scope of the work their game idea is going to involve due to their lack of experience. I wish them well and if its looking good by the time it hits beta I'll probably be trying it out.