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That’s not true, at least if we’re talking fourth amendment issues in the US. If the evidence was thrown out, any additional information gleaned from that evide

That’s not true, at least if we’re talking fourth amendment issues in the US. If the evidence was thrown out, any additional information gleaned from that evidence could be thrown out too. And in a scenario like what you described, it likely would. That’s not a guarantee, of course, and it could be possible for police to corroborate that you had contact with someone else in another way (through records from a wireless carrier or by doing shoe leather investigative work) and use try to get data on that person to get them to testify, but if their only link was through messages that had been deemed inadmissible, they can’t use that witness. The more likely question in a scenario you describe would be if the compromised Signal data would be enough to raise questions about the validity of all the data on the device. I.e., if Signal is out, can they use information from WhatsApp or iMessage or whatever. Past case law would suggest that once compromised, all of the evidence from the device is compromised — but a judge might rule otherwise. It would be cool if Signal or another app could use those exploits they’ve uncovered to inject randomized data into the data stores of other messaging applications too. You know. Just as an experiment.

neodymiumphish 6y ago
Wrong. You're talking about "fruit of the poisonous tree", which only involves evidence found as a result of an illegal search. A legal search that results in "false" evidence, which is later used to find "real" evidence will still meet sufficiency in court, because the now-"real" evidence is still admissible, just like the "false" evidence is admissible. It's just that the defense can have the "false" evidence thrown out because it's not verifiable. In the example being discussed here, it's absolutely still fine for LE and there isn't a need to find a secondary source that side-steps the FOTPT argument. In fact, I could drag a subject into an interview, take his phone and present a warrant to search his phone. If he refuses to unlock the phone, I can say "fine, we'll use our special software instead" and take it back to another room. After the interview, I give him back his phone and immediately bring in his co-conspirator. If I show the conspirator fake messages between him and my first subject and get him to testify against my subject, that's still admissible. If this is the case, why would using potentially-false/unverifiable Cellebrite data be inadmissible?

neodymiumphish 6y ago

Wrong. You're talking about "fruit of the poisonous tree", which only involves evidence found as a result of an illegal search. A legal search that results in "false" evidence, which is later used to find "real" evidence will still meet sufficiency in court, because the now-"real" evidence is still admissible, just like the "false" evidence is admissible. It's just that the defense can have the "false" evidence thrown out because it's not verifiable. In the example being discussed here, it's absolutely still fine for LE and there isn't a need to find a secondary source that side-steps the FOTPT argument. In fact, I could drag a subject into an interview, take his phone and present a warrant to search his phone. If he refuses to unlock the phone, I can say "fine, we'll use our special software instead" and take it back to another room. After the interview, I give him back his phone and immediately bring in his co-conspirator. If I show the conspirator fake messages between him and my first subject and get him to testify against my subject, that's still admissible. If this is the case, why would using potentially-false/unverifiable Cellebrite data be inadmissible?