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Nature really is wonderful is so many ways. The harvesting of ocean life really seems to be one of the things the world has made great strides towards better m

Nature really is wonderful is so many ways. The harvesting of ocean life really seems to be one of the things the world has made great strides towards better management in the past 100 years, yet there seems to be so many pressing issues.

jorts 6y ago
Ocean wildlife stock has dropped dramatically in the last 100 years and continues to drop as we scrape everything we can out of it. The future looks bleak in this regard.
- CryptoPunk 6y ago
  Extra-terrestial colonization appears to me to be one of the few avenues of human civilizational expansion that is positive sum for all lifeforms. We could grow our food in what are now lifeless surfaces, thus reducing the stress we impose on natural habitats, while massively expanding how much we produce.
  - rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
    >We could grow our food in what are now lifeless surfaces If can't keep an habitable planet habitable, how can we turn a rock into an habitat?
    - CryptoPunk 6y ago
      Because Earth-based civilization relies on the commons, and it's hard to manage the commons, due to the vast number of competing claims on them. i.e. the tragedy of the commons. Extra-terrestial colonization would be completely different, with entirely self-contained environments owned by defined parties who are incentivized to effectively manage them. The other point is that extra-terrestial colonization could give us access to vastly more resources, that can be harnessed without putting any strain on natural environments. It could even be possible to return all Earth-based agricultural lands to their natural state, and grow all the food we need in urban vertical farms that receive the energy they need for plant growth from extra-terrestial sources like space-based solar panels.
ska 6y ago
> has made great strides towards better management in the past 100 years, This really doesn't seem to be true. In particular, things are much worse for most fisheries over the last 25 years.
- frumper 6y ago
  They are worse recently, but some good things were done in the 20th century. Fisheries have been overfished for much of human civilization and we have recovered some of those. We are better at enforcing regulations and willing to enact new ones, though doubtless there are still problems. Whaling protections have been put in place and despite several offenders the situation is better than it was 100-200 years ago.
  - zokier 6y ago
    Whaling peaked at 1960s and was banned only in 1986. We have done some good in the past 20-30 years, yes, but at least 2/3rds of 20th century were pretty bleak, and situation at the end of 20th century definitely was lot worse than what it was 200 years ago. I know whaling has strong cultural connotations to 19th century, through Moby Dick and such, but that was really just very small scale childs play compared to 20th century stuff. Fishing has even bleaker situation. From 1950s we have gone from about 20 million tonnes yearly capture production to about 80 million tonnes in 1990s, and stayed at that level since. The sort of devastatingly massive factory ships we operate these days simply did not exist before. I guess the only good thing that can be said is that the total global catch growth has stopped?
    - phillc73 6y ago
      I'd like to make a book recommendation. The Outlaw Ocean by Ian Urbina. When I read this 12 months ago, I felt it was one of the most powerful accounts of the pillages still occurring in the world's oceans, as well as the horrific conditions many fishermen are forced to live in. I won't link to Amazon, but here is a review of the book: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/02/the-outlaw-ocean-by-ian-urbina-review https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/02/the-outlaw-oce... There's an associated website: https://www.theoutlawocean.com/ https://www.theoutlawocean.com/
guerrilla 6y ago
Someone hasn't seen Seaspiracy... Sorry to be the one to break the bad news to you...
agogdog 6y ago
Many of those strides are illusions meant to create this exact mindset, unfortunately. The future of the ocean is still bleak and its destruction outpaces any conservation efforts.

jorts 6y ago

Ocean wildlife stock has dropped dramatically in the last 100 years and continues to drop as we scrape everything we can out of it. The future looks bleak in this regard.

CryptoPunk 6y ago
Extra-terrestial colonization appears to me to be one of the few avenues of human civilizational expansion that is positive sum for all lifeforms. We could grow our food in what are now lifeless surfaces, thus reducing the stress we impose on natural habitats, while massively expanding how much we produce.
- rcMgD2BwE72F 6y ago
  >We could grow our food in what are now lifeless surfaces If can't keep an habitable planet habitable, how can we turn a rock into an habitat?
  - CryptoPunk 6y ago
    Because Earth-based civilization relies on the commons, and it's hard to manage the commons, due to the vast number of competing claims on them. i.e. the tragedy of the commons. Extra-terrestial colonization would be completely different, with entirely self-contained environments owned by defined parties who are incentivized to effectively manage them. The other point is that extra-terrestial colonization could give us access to vastly more resources, that can be harnessed without putting any strain on natural environments. It could even be possible to return all Earth-based agricultural lands to their natural state, and grow all the food we need in urban vertical farms that receive the energy they need for plant growth from extra-terrestial sources like space-based solar panels.

ska 6y ago

> has made great strides towards better management in the past 100 years, This really doesn't seem to be true. In particular, things are much worse for most fisheries over the last 25 years.

frumper 6y ago
They are worse recently, but some good things were done in the 20th century. Fisheries have been overfished for much of human civilization and we have recovered some of those. We are better at enforcing regulations and willing to enact new ones, though doubtless there are still problems. Whaling protections have been put in place and despite several offenders the situation is better than it was 100-200 years ago.
- zokier 6y ago
  Whaling peaked at 1960s and was banned only in 1986. We have done some good in the past 20-30 years, yes, but at least 2/3rds of 20th century were pretty bleak, and situation at the end of 20th century definitely was lot worse than what it was 200 years ago. I know whaling has strong cultural connotations to 19th century, through Moby Dick and such, but that was really just very small scale childs play compared to 20th century stuff. Fishing has even bleaker situation. From 1950s we have gone from about 20 million tonnes yearly capture production to about 80 million tonnes in 1990s, and stayed at that level since. The sort of devastatingly massive factory ships we operate these days simply did not exist before. I guess the only good thing that can be said is that the total global catch growth has stopped?
  - phillc73 6y ago
    I'd like to make a book recommendation. The Outlaw Ocean by Ian Urbina. When I read this 12 months ago, I felt it was one of the most powerful accounts of the pillages still occurring in the world's oceans, as well as the horrific conditions many fishermen are forced to live in. I won't link to Amazon, but here is a review of the book: https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/02/the-outlaw-ocean-by-ian-urbina-review https://www.theguardian.com/books/2019/oct/02/the-outlaw-oce... There's an associated website: https://www.theoutlawocean.com/ https://www.theoutlawocean.com/

guerrilla 6y ago

Someone hasn't seen Seaspiracy... Sorry to be the one to break the bad news to you...

agogdog 6y ago

Many of those strides are illusions meant to create this exact mindset, unfortunately. The future of the ocean is still bleak and its destruction outpaces any conservation efforts.