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Fun facts: - Over a thousand whales are killed each year despite it being ruled illegal "for profit" 35 years ago. - The biggest offenders are supposedly Japa

Fun facts: - Over a thousand whales are killed each year despite it being ruled illegal "for profit" 35 years ago. - The biggest offenders are supposedly Japan, Iceland, and Norway who believe they have rights for different objective reasons. - Whale oil, blubber, and cartilage is used for various supplement or sometimes the meat is consumed via traditional dishes. - To kill whales, you use an exploding harpoon that can take a half hour to kill. Sometimes multiple shots are needed. People are cruel. The bar for how we treat life and choose which animals can die makes no sense whatsoever. More: https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/stop-whaling/ https://us.whales.org/our-4-goals/stop-whaling/

yboris 5y ago
To follow up with that, we are exceptionally cruel through our factory farms (CAFO) which subject animals to conditions that would put you into federal jail for years if you did it to a dog. I strongly encourage everyone to consume less meat (because individual actions matter - the market is responsive/elastic and fewer animals will experience torture in the future if you purchase less animal products).
- bollu 5y ago
  I don't believe that my individual choice actually matters; What do I read to change my opinion?
  - SuoDuanDao 5y ago
    Any introduction to chaos theory should change your mind, but it convinces you that your actions have consequences at the cost of never being sure what they are.
  - lasfter 5y ago
    I'm usually of the same mind, but this is one scenario where individual action actually can help. For example, driving less won't significantly affect climate change even if most people do it, since the biggest contributors are industrial processes. On the other hand, nearly all of the animal cruelty from factory farms stems from people buying meat from them. So if most people eat less meat, then factory farms actually will suffer.
  - yboris 5y ago
    There are people who have tried to investigate this thoroughly. My understanding is that there is a direct correlation between your actions an the supply. > "If someone gives up 1 lb of chicken, total consumption falls by 0.76lb in expectation." https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fZp6Fpowmd5a8Lu2w/what-is-the-current-best-estimate-of-the-cumulative https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fZp6Fpowmd5a8Lu2w/... Directly: https://reducing-suffering.org/comments-on-compassion-by-the-pound/#Elasticities https://reducing-suffering.org/comments-on-compassion-by-the... The mechanism is simple: if the stores are 100% responsive to your demand, your purchase directly affects supply. If they are not 100% perfect, they still have a mechanism through which they buy in bulk. So, roughly speaking, you might have a 1% chance of triggering a batch order for an extra 100 lbs when you purchase 1 lb of meat. And the same goes up the supply chain.
  - agogdog 5y ago
    Have you noticed that there's a lot more vegetarian food available and there are legitimately good meat alternatives now? This stuff didn't exist 20 years ago. The personal choices of consumers en masse has made that difference.
  - yesenadam 5y ago
    Maybe hang out with some cows, pigs, sheep, lambs etc for a lil while. I don't mean in a mass farm with 1000s. In a place where there are one or 2 you can get to know as individuals.
- agumonkey 5y ago
  We need to find a compensating activity so people don't think about eating. It can be a double win, less consumption and more social activity / bond.
- OnlyOneCannolo 5y ago
  I'm lucky to be able to get almost all of my meat from local, pasture-only sources (no feeder lots or anything like that). There are alternatives to abstaining from meat. The more we support them, the more widely available they will become.
  - yboris 5y ago
    Given that > 99% of all meat consumed in the US comes from factory farms, it is currently not feasible for the vast majority of the US population to do what you are lucky to be able to do. It's great to hear there are still farms that care about animal welfare, but it's a challenge with a race-to-the-bottom where profits are inversely proportional with animal welfare. Specifically, there is a greater incentive to make consumers think that the animals have good welfare, than to actually implement the better welfare. Unless we have mandatory web-cameras on all factories, you're just going on trust of people (who have all the immense financial incentives to lie).
    - OnlyOneCannolo 5y ago
      I'm saying that if you ever have the choice to support ethical options or abstain completely, don't feel bad about supporting. I hope they continue to grow, that more people become more conscientious, and that regulations improve.
  - agogdog 5y ago
    Where's that almost coming from?
- jjtheblunt 5y ago
  Unless you're Michael Vick, in which case the NFL gives him a high paying job, i've noticed and heard countless people remark seems conspicuous.
  - jgwil2 5y ago
    He spent 21 months in federal prison.
bserge 5y ago
Humans will kill anything, often for stupid reasons. Really parasitic behaviour tbh.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dang 5y ago
This doesn't have anything directly to do with the specific topic, which is the culture of whales. Please don't take HN threads on generic tangents. On HN we're interested in the diffs [1]: what's specifically interesting about an article. Generic tangents pull threads away from that into the gravitational field of the nearest large topic, sort of like a spaceship flying too close to a black hole [2]. The generic topics are larger, more familiar, and more repetitive [3]. Familiarity is seductive, but repetition is bad for curiosity [4], and curiosity is what we're trying to optimize for [5]. The generic themes are usually more sensational and inflammatory, too, which is doubly not what we're looking for. It's super tempting for threads to hop to the most-generic adjacent orbit. Often they make several such hops. By the time a discussion reaches "People are cruel", that's a good example of a black hole. No light is going to come out of such a thread. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=diffs%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20discussion%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... [4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20repetition%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [5] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... p.s. Not saying the generic topics aren't important in society at large. They're usually much more important than most of what's on topic here. But a site like HN needs to stick to what it's for.
- WORMS_EAT_WORMS 5y ago
  Fair enough, thanks for added perspective.
- mod 5y ago
  I love this comment. Thanks, dang.

yboris 5y ago

To follow up with that, we are exceptionally cruel through our factory farms (CAFO) which subject animals to conditions that would put you into federal jail for years if you did it to a dog. I strongly encourage everyone to consume less meat (because individual actions matter - the market is responsive/elastic and fewer animals will experience torture in the future if you purchase less animal products).

bollu 5y ago
I don't believe that my individual choice actually matters; What do I read to change my opinion?
- SuoDuanDao 5y ago
  Any introduction to chaos theory should change your mind, but it convinces you that your actions have consequences at the cost of never being sure what they are.
- lasfter 5y ago
  I'm usually of the same mind, but this is one scenario where individual action actually can help. For example, driving less won't significantly affect climate change even if most people do it, since the biggest contributors are industrial processes. On the other hand, nearly all of the animal cruelty from factory farms stems from people buying meat from them. So if most people eat less meat, then factory farms actually will suffer.
- yboris 5y ago
  There are people who have tried to investigate this thoroughly. My understanding is that there is a direct correlation between your actions an the supply. > "If someone gives up 1 lb of chicken, total consumption falls by 0.76lb in expectation." https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fZp6Fpowmd5a8Lu2w/what-is-the-current-best-estimate-of-the-cumulative https://forum.effectivealtruism.org/posts/fZp6Fpowmd5a8Lu2w/... Directly: https://reducing-suffering.org/comments-on-compassion-by-the-pound/#Elasticities https://reducing-suffering.org/comments-on-compassion-by-the... The mechanism is simple: if the stores are 100% responsive to your demand, your purchase directly affects supply. If they are not 100% perfect, they still have a mechanism through which they buy in bulk. So, roughly speaking, you might have a 1% chance of triggering a batch order for an extra 100 lbs when you purchase 1 lb of meat. And the same goes up the supply chain.
- agogdog 5y ago
  Have you noticed that there's a lot more vegetarian food available and there are legitimately good meat alternatives now? This stuff didn't exist 20 years ago. The personal choices of consumers en masse has made that difference.
- yesenadam 5y ago
  Maybe hang out with some cows, pigs, sheep, lambs etc for a lil while. I don't mean in a mass farm with 1000s. In a place where there are one or 2 you can get to know as individuals.
agumonkey 5y ago
We need to find a compensating activity so people don't think about eating. It can be a double win, less consumption and more social activity / bond.
OnlyOneCannolo 5y ago
I'm lucky to be able to get almost all of my meat from local, pasture-only sources (no feeder lots or anything like that). There are alternatives to abstaining from meat. The more we support them, the more widely available they will become.
- yboris 5y ago
  Given that > 99% of all meat consumed in the US comes from factory farms, it is currently not feasible for the vast majority of the US population to do what you are lucky to be able to do. It's great to hear there are still farms that care about animal welfare, but it's a challenge with a race-to-the-bottom where profits are inversely proportional with animal welfare. Specifically, there is a greater incentive to make consumers think that the animals have good welfare, than to actually implement the better welfare. Unless we have mandatory web-cameras on all factories, you're just going on trust of people (who have all the immense financial incentives to lie).
  - OnlyOneCannolo 5y ago
    I'm saying that if you ever have the choice to support ethical options or abstain completely, don't feel bad about supporting. I hope they continue to grow, that more people become more conscientious, and that regulations improve.
- agogdog 5y ago
  Where's that almost coming from?
jjtheblunt 5y ago
Unless you're Michael Vick, in which case the NFL gives him a high paying job, i've noticed and heard countless people remark seems conspicuous.
- jgwil2 5y ago
  He spent 21 months in federal prison.

bserge 5y ago

Humans will kill anything, often for stupid reasons. Really parasitic behaviour tbh.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dang 5y ago

This doesn't have anything directly to do with the specific topic, which is the culture of whales. Please don't take HN threads on generic tangents. On HN we're interested in the diffs [1]: what's specifically interesting about an article. Generic tangents pull threads away from that into the gravitational field of the nearest large topic, sort of like a spaceship flying too close to a black hole [2]. The generic topics are larger, more familiar, and more repetitive [3]. Familiarity is seductive, but repetition is bad for curiosity [4], and curiosity is what we're trying to optimize for [5]. The generic themes are usually more sensational and inflammatory, too, which is doubly not what we're looking for. It's super tempting for threads to hop to the most-generic adjacent orbit. Often they make several such hops. By the time a discussion reaches "People are cruel", that's a good example of a black hole. No light is going to come out of such a thread. [1] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=diffs%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [2] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&query=by%3Adang%20black%20hole&sort=byDate&type=story&type=comment https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&que... [3] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=generic%20discussion%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... [4] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20repetition%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=false&so... [5] https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sort=byDate&type=comment&query=curiosity%20optimiz%20by:dang https://hn.algolia.com/?dateRange=all&page=0&prefix=true&sor... p.s. Not saying the generic topics aren't important in society at large. They're usually much more important than most of what's on topic here. But a site like HN needs to stick to what it's for.

WORMS_EAT_WORMS 5y ago
Fair enough, thanks for added perspective.
mod 5y ago
I love this comment. Thanks, dang.