6 ms·

> you would see a gradual immiseration of the population good point, there's basically no evidence[0,1,2,3,4,5,6,7] of misery across the american population.

• refurb 6y ago
  Ok, try doing that in the late 90’s and see what happens.
• paulpauper 6y ago
  you can do this for any snapshop of time, it is only now that socia media makes events that decades ago would have gone ignored, major news.
• jeffreyrogers 6y ago
  By this definition France and 1990s Seattle would be terrible places to live. The opioid epidemic is potentially a real indicator of immiseration (not the same thing as misery btw), but I don't know much about it.
  • wcarss 6y ago
    Interesting -- "immiseration", as far as I know, originates with 19th century socialist theory regarding rising misery among the working class due to relatively lower wages as capitalists accumulate wealth and subjugate them[0,1]. Granted, the term is obscure and jargonesque enough that in modern use it does generally mean, specifically, "impoverishment". Which in other words could be called misery from economic causes. Please, allow at least a little breadth in the scope of rhetorical wordplay: immiseration is fundamentally about misery, and the links I gave are examples of the broad misery felt by the average American. That misery is not sourceless: my entire point is that that misery is due to the increasing relative impoverishment of the average person. On the surface it is just misery, but when you think about the causes, it is apparent that it is immiseration, in the jargon sense: the people are poorer than they have ever been, and they are visibly angrier and more upset because of it. 0 - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immiseration_thesis https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Immiseration_thesis 1 - https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Das_Kapital_Volume_One/Chapter_25#Section_4 https://en.wikisource.org/wiki/Das_Kapital_Volume_One/Chapte...
    • AnimalMuppet 6y ago
      I see very little connection between the George Floyd protests and increasing relative impoverishment of the average person.
      • noofen 6y ago
        Lots of young people with nothing but time on their hands?
      • wcarss 6y ago
        The George Floyd protest and the Capitol Riot are each outpourings of rage, directed at "the system". One was directed at the ongoing and increasing seeming criminalization of simply being Black in America, and one was directed at what the people involved thought was an unfair and stolen election, designed to take from them what little they have. Different people, different plights, different ideas: same root cause. Happy, wealthy, comfortable, safe people who believe a bright future is in store do not take to the streets, burn buildings down, and get into large scale fights with their local police force. They don't throw bricks through coffee shop windows, hang out in tear gas clouds, or crowd up during a pandemic. Their willingness to do so, over clearly expressed feelings of hopelessness and loss of control or participation in the system, over a feeling that they are losing out overall, it's coming from a place of desperation. It is coming from a place of misery. You've got to be pretty miserable if you think fighting the cops sounds good. I'm sorry that you see very little connection there. It may unfortunately be that you see very little overall, or that you're intentionally looking away.
        • AnimalMuppet 6y ago
          Ignoring your gratuitous insults in the last paragraph... > Happy, wealthy, comfortable, safe people who believe a bright future is in store do not take to the streets, burn buildings down, and get into large scale fights with their local police force. They don't throw bricks through coffee shop windows, hang out in tear gas clouds, or crowd up during a pandemic. Yeah, see, they could be wealthy, and still not safe because of skin color. That's the point of the George Floyd protests. If you see people like yourself getting shot by police for reasons that seem absurd, over and over, you don't feel safe. You don't believe in a bright future. You aren't happy. And economics has very little to do with it.
• bottled_poe 6y ago
  Had a look at those. I see a lot of political discourse, which is certainly related to economic prosperity, but only vaguely... Has the quality of life declined in the US? Have future prospects generally declined? If either of those is yes, we could be in big trouble..
  • lotsofpulp 6y ago
    On a zoom call with a group of ~12 friends from undergraduate school, there was an awkward moment where one of the friends jokingly congratulated 2 of the 12 on being able to afford a homes (recently purchased) and start families. In mid 30s, all women, all have bachelors and have been employed long term, 3 of the 12 are married, 2 of the 12 have children, another 4 are paired up with long time partners, but there was a palpable unease and underlying depression about the future income prospects and lack of security about where they would be able to live.
    • reducesuffering 6y ago
      Years ago, buying a home seemed like something you can easily share and celebrate with acquaintances. Recently buying a home in the Bay Area, I felt that's passed and I try not to bring it up. I don't feel any satisfaction from celebrating or bringing up something that 20 people in a gathering have very dim prospects of ever affording, and questions about it make me feel uneasy about their possible uneasiness.
      • refurb 6y ago
        No. Boasting about buying an expensive home was never socially acceptable. Well, except maybe among the rich.
        • reducesuffering 6y ago
          I agree, because it's expensive. But a modest American home was never that expensive for most adults, hence "house warming parties", and thus I'm fairly sure was socially acceptable.