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I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature

I've been using WhatsApp for years, reluctantly since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. It is ridiculously invasive and cannot ever be turned off or even hidden from specific contacts. This is a SMS client, not a chat client, and revealing a user's online status is highly problematic both socially and security-wise. I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined. (I am talking specifically about the "online" indication, not the "last seen" information, which is also invasive but can be turned off).

throw_away789 5y ago
> I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined. and relationships
- mahathu 5y ago
  This seems like a stretch to me. I agree this feature is unnecessary and invasive. But why would it destroy relationships?
  - mcjiggerlog 5y ago
    It doesn't take much imagination to come up with a hypothetical scenario. Person is writing to their partner but receiving no reply, however they can see that their partner has been online for the past 30 minutes. Person is convinced that their partner is talking to that one guy from the gym. I have definitely been called out for being online but not replying, so I can easily imagine how that can end up becoming a big drama in some relationships.
  - crocsarecool 5y ago
    Maybe you have a crazy manager. They see you were online when you were meant to be working. They use this to justify their thoughts you’re lazy. Who knows?
  - throw_away789 5y ago
    Just go ahead and see on playstore how many people are using whatsapp status tracker app. Also read reviews and you will know.
breakfastduck 5y ago
It does nothing but serve to increase paranoia that someone is actively being ignored.
dec0dedab0de 5y ago
I only used WhatsApp for a year or so to talk to a specific person, but it definitely felt like a chat client to me. My general impression is that it is a lesser version of AIM but using phone numbers as logins. To be fair, I think of all instant messaging apps as lesser versions of AIM, and I still can't believe AOL dropped the ball so hard on that. I don't remember the online indication, is that only when you're actively using the app? or just if the app is open on your phone? I'm trying to think of a situation where either could ruin someones life but I'm struggling. Maybe if you're trying to avoid someone important to you, but need to talk to someone else on whats app? Could you give an example of what you were thinking?
- gridder 5y ago
  When you are online anyone can check it. There is no option to hide the online status. Using an easy script anyone can then spy and understand pretty much everything of a person, or a group. This is easy cyber stalking and dangerous. Especially because normal people do not understand this and think that hiding last seen is useful to avoid being stalked…
  - dec0dedab0de 5y ago
    Do you mean any one of your contacts? or anyone who has your phone number? And I'm still confused about the definition of "online" and how that can give anyone an understanding of you.
    - rpadovani 5y ago
      Anyone with your number, and it reports when you have the application open. Assuming WhatsApp is the first and last app you open in the day (good morning and good night messages) you know how long a person sleeps, and this is only a very easy analysis you can do. I am sure you can find something more interesting recording when people open an app.
      - dec0dedab0de 5y ago
m_st 5y ago
I totally agree. Except that I very much call it a chat client. It is way beyond SMS.
- kzrdude 5y ago
  It's sms that is way behind the needs of chat :)
peterjmag 5y ago
Totally agreed that it's invasive. Same for the "typing" indicator, which also can't be disabled. If I'm writing something longer than a sentence or two, I usually just compose it somewhere else and then copy/paste it into WhatsApp, just to avoid feeling observed. The fact that those two things can't be disabled actually makes me want to use WhatsApp less. I doubt I'm alone in that. Makes me wonder if Facebook's "engagement" stats account for those types of disincentives.
- sdiq 5y ago
  I also type elsewhere and copy paste to Whatsapp anytime I am writing something longer than a couple lines. I have also disabled the last seen feature. The currently online status seem way worse than last seen and can't be disabled.
georgiecasey 5y ago
> since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. Same in my country, I don't think Americans (or the American tech culture) realise how ubiquitous WhatsApp is in Europe and around the world.
- ejolto 5y ago
  I'm in a European country and no one uses whatsapp here. I have it but only to talk to foreing friends.
- dkdbejwi383 5y ago
  In the UK, I’ve basically only used WhatsApp for sms-type communication for the past 4 years. Actual SMS is for one-time passcodes and automated messages from my bank and doctor. Previous to that, I was in Australia where practically nobody used WhatsApp, favouring iMessage or Facebook messenger. Messaging app adoption is highly localised.
- ryandrake 5y ago
  There are a lot of things that are "ubiquitous" but I still wouldn't voluntarily use. Between this thread and the YouTube one today, and countless other ones in the recent past, there seem to be a growing number of "Xyz app is bad, but I won't stop using it" threads lately. I mean, talk about being part of the problem and not part of the solution. Whatever happened to "Be the change you want to see in the world?"
femiagbabiaka 5y ago
With Android phones you could possibly use an app like NoRoot Firewall to cut off net access for the app when you want to appear offline. Unfortunately that's a pretty "advanced" use of apps for the average consumer and definitely not a replacement for building this in natively.
- mahathu 5y ago
  Or turn on airplane mode
- NotEvil 5y ago
  Actually pointless as online status is shown when you open the app. And you have to do that fir checking messages.
  - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
    Depends on your reasons for showing offline. If offline is a proxy for “I am not here to check and respond to messages”, such as when you’re sleeping, quite useful. If not, and you’d prefer to be constantly offline for privacy reasons, less useful.
    - livre 5y ago
      You don't "show offline" in WhatsApp, either "online" appears below the contact name or nothing appears. Nothing doesn't mean offline, it means the person doesn't have WhatsApp running in the foreground, they could or could not be online (which most define as "using or not using the phone right now").
      - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
        It was a euphemism, but good clarification! Colloquially you can interpret the lack of online-ness as offline.
mahathu 5y ago
> I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined I agree with your comment completely, but isn't this a bit a bit of an exaggeration?
- beckman466 5y ago
  > I agree with your comment completely, but isn't this a bit a bit of an exaggeration? No. Many global south countries like Brazil use WhatsApp instead of sms, and not being able to control what information you push out is therefore dangerous. As someone else wrote in this sub, you don’t need to first ‘friend’ or link with someone on WhatsApp before they can see all your info (like how often and how long someone is online). Stalking and stalkers are more prevalent than you think. Nevermind that the situation is also different depending on your gender (women are stalked and victims of violence more than men). Also I think a few people here seem really concerned with whether its an SMS or an IM service, but I think that doesn’t matter when you ask instead what’s affordable and accessible to the average person in the global south. I think you’ll find that sms and calls are usually luxuries reserved for the tiny minority in power).
  - guenthert 5y ago
    > women are stalked and victims of violence more than men This is going to be a bit off-topic now, but I'd say by violence above only physical violence is meant. If verbal and psychological abuse is included, the balance isn't quite so obvious.
harperlee 5y ago
> This is a SMS client, not a chat client That is a subjective take that's mainly in your head. WhatsApp is a client for chatting, so it is a chat client. It does not use the SMS network, so it is not an SMS client. Some countries such as US and France had free SMS services, that enabled it to be used as chat. Other places SMS being costly it was used as a "write ideally one message" functionality, similar to email (which only costs in other ways, in human time, but not in actual bills). You can see this in the design of the Messages app in iPhone for example.
- beckman466 5y ago
  > That is a subjective take that's mainly in your head. Wow that’s gaslighty
  - canadianfella 5y ago
    How so?
  - LambdaComplex 5y ago
    It's gaslighty to say that a client that does not use SMS is not an SMS client?
temp667 5y ago
I can't help but wondering how many lives WhatsApp has helped. And it is definitely NOT an SMS client. The entire reason it has become so popular is that it does not use SMS. Before WhatsApp - the govt in these countries - supposedly looking out for the common good - allowed telecom carriers (usually giant oligarchs) to charge OBSENE per msg rates.
- guenthert 5y ago
  I do remember when SMS where actually free in Germany (where customarily telecoms charge you an arm & a leg). This led to people carrying mobile phones (era before smart phones), but only ever used SMS. You've seen them 'simsen' in bars, coffee shops, everywhere. Looked quite funny then (even though we appreciated that they stopped talking loudly on their phones all the time everywhere). I still can't quite get used to the view of people with a screen glued to their face.
Abishek_Muthian 5y ago
> I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. Fun fact: WhatsApp was initially just that i.e. It showed status of its users online and people started using it to share messages leading up to the development of full-fledged chat app. We may be from the same country, Where peer pressure to have a WhatsApp account is so high that friends and relatives get offended if you don't have one. So I have isolated WhatsApp to a android VM, it sends me an encrypted email of the incoming messages, lets know the sender the same and that they need to message me on Signal if expect faster reply[1]. [1] https://abishekmuthian.com/send-and-receive-whatsapp-messages-through-email/ https://abishekmuthian.com/send-and-receive-whatsapp-message...
perryizgr8 5y ago
Whatsapp has nothing to do with SMS? Why would you think so?
- azepoi 5y ago
  In some circles it has completely replaced SMS. While it has chating features, the normal message sms use case also takes place within whatsapp in these circles/countries.
murukesh_s 5y ago
Not sure if its country wise or only in newer versions, but you can turn off last seen and read receipt as well. go to account -> privacy if its available or try to upgrade.
guru4consulting 5y ago
you can turn on airplane mode, quickly check whatsapp messages, get out and turn off airplane mode. It is a dirty hack, but it also helps you to spend minimal time on whatsapp.

throw_away789 5y ago

> I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined. and relationships

mahathu 5y ago
This seems like a stretch to me. I agree this feature is unnecessary and invasive. But why would it destroy relationships?
- mcjiggerlog 5y ago
  It doesn't take much imagination to come up with a hypothetical scenario. Person is writing to their partner but receiving no reply, however they can see that their partner has been online for the past 30 minutes. Person is convinced that their partner is talking to that one guy from the gym. I have definitely been called out for being online but not replying, so I can easily imagine how that can end up becoming a big drama in some relationships.
- crocsarecool 5y ago
  Maybe you have a crazy manager. They see you were online when you were meant to be working. They use this to justify their thoughts you’re lazy. Who knows?
- throw_away789 5y ago
  Just go ahead and see on playstore how many people are using whatsapp status tracker app. Also read reviews and you will know.

breakfastduck 5y ago

It does nothing but serve to increase paranoia that someone is actively being ignored.

dec0dedab0de 5y ago

I only used WhatsApp for a year or so to talk to a specific person, but it definitely felt like a chat client to me. My general impression is that it is a lesser version of AIM but using phone numbers as logins. To be fair, I think of all instant messaging apps as lesser versions of AIM, and I still can't believe AOL dropped the ball so hard on that. I don't remember the online indication, is that only when you're actively using the app? or just if the app is open on your phone? I'm trying to think of a situation where either could ruin someones life but I'm struggling. Maybe if you're trying to avoid someone important to you, but need to talk to someone else on whats app? Could you give an example of what you were thinking?

gridder 5y ago
When you are online anyone can check it. There is no option to hide the online status. Using an easy script anyone can then spy and understand pretty much everything of a person, or a group. This is easy cyber stalking and dangerous. Especially because normal people do not understand this and think that hiding last seen is useful to avoid being stalked…
- dec0dedab0de 5y ago
  Do you mean any one of your contacts? or anyone who has your phone number? And I'm still confused about the definition of "online" and how that can give anyone an understanding of you.
  - rpadovani 5y ago
    Anyone with your number, and it reports when you have the application open. Assuming WhatsApp is the first and last app you open in the day (good morning and good night messages) you know how long a person sleeps, and this is only a very easy analysis you can do. I am sure you can find something more interesting recording when people open an app.
    - dec0dedab0de 5y ago

m_st 5y ago

I totally agree. Except that I very much call it a chat client. It is way beyond SMS.

kzrdude 5y ago
It's sms that is way behind the needs of chat :)

peterjmag 5y ago

Totally agreed that it's invasive. Same for the "typing" indicator, which also can't be disabled. If I'm writing something longer than a sentence or two, I usually just compose it somewhere else and then copy/paste it into WhatsApp, just to avoid feeling observed. The fact that those two things can't be disabled actually makes me want to use WhatsApp less. I doubt I'm alone in that. Makes me wonder if Facebook's "engagement" stats account for those types of disincentives.

sdiq 5y ago
I also type elsewhere and copy paste to Whatsapp anytime I am writing something longer than a couple lines. I have also disabled the last seen feature. The currently online status seem way worse than last seen and can't be disabled.

georgiecasey 5y ago

> since it is the de-facto SMS standard in my country. Same in my country, I don't think Americans (or the American tech culture) realise how ubiquitous WhatsApp is in Europe and around the world.

ejolto 5y ago
I'm in a European country and no one uses whatsapp here. I have it but only to talk to foreing friends.
dkdbejwi383 5y ago
In the UK, I’ve basically only used WhatsApp for sms-type communication for the past 4 years. Actual SMS is for one-time passcodes and automated messages from my bank and doctor. Previous to that, I was in Australia where practically nobody used WhatsApp, favouring iMessage or Facebook messenger. Messaging app adoption is highly localised.
ryandrake 5y ago
There are a lot of things that are "ubiquitous" but I still wouldn't voluntarily use. Between this thread and the YouTube one today, and countless other ones in the recent past, there seem to be a growing number of "Xyz app is bad, but I won't stop using it" threads lately. I mean, talk about being part of the problem and not part of the solution. Whatever happened to "Be the change you want to see in the world?"

femiagbabiaka 5y ago

With Android phones you could possibly use an app like NoRoot Firewall to cut off net access for the app when you want to appear offline. Unfortunately that's a pretty "advanced" use of apps for the average consumer and definitely not a replacement for building this in natively.

mahathu 5y ago
Or turn on airplane mode
NotEvil 5y ago
Actually pointless as online status is shown when you open the app. And you have to do that fir checking messages.
- femiagbabiaka 5y ago
  Depends on your reasons for showing offline. If offline is a proxy for “I am not here to check and respond to messages”, such as when you’re sleeping, quite useful. If not, and you’d prefer to be constantly offline for privacy reasons, less useful.
  - livre 5y ago
    You don't "show offline" in WhatsApp, either "online" appears below the contact name or nothing appears. Nothing doesn't mean offline, it means the person doesn't have WhatsApp running in the foreground, they could or could not be online (which most define as "using or not using the phone right now").
    - femiagbabiaka 5y ago
      It was a euphemism, but good clarification! Colloquially you can interpret the lack of online-ness as offline.

mahathu 5y ago

> I can't help but wonder how many lives this feature has ruined I agree with your comment completely, but isn't this a bit a bit of an exaggeration?

beckman466 5y ago
> I agree with your comment completely, but isn't this a bit a bit of an exaggeration? No. Many global south countries like Brazil use WhatsApp instead of sms, and not being able to control what information you push out is therefore dangerous. As someone else wrote in this sub, you don’t need to first ‘friend’ or link with someone on WhatsApp before they can see all your info (like how often and how long someone is online). Stalking and stalkers are more prevalent than you think. Nevermind that the situation is also different depending on your gender (women are stalked and victims of violence more than men). Also I think a few people here seem really concerned with whether its an SMS or an IM service, but I think that doesn’t matter when you ask instead what’s affordable and accessible to the average person in the global south. I think you’ll find that sms and calls are usually luxuries reserved for the tiny minority in power).
- guenthert 5y ago
  > women are stalked and victims of violence more than men This is going to be a bit off-topic now, but I'd say by violence above only physical violence is meant. If verbal and psychological abuse is included, the balance isn't quite so obvious.

harperlee 5y ago

> This is a SMS client, not a chat client That is a subjective take that's mainly in your head. WhatsApp is a client for chatting, so it is a chat client. It does not use the SMS network, so it is not an SMS client. Some countries such as US and France had free SMS services, that enabled it to be used as chat. Other places SMS being costly it was used as a "write ideally one message" functionality, similar to email (which only costs in other ways, in human time, but not in actual bills). You can see this in the design of the Messages app in iPhone for example.

beckman466 5y ago
> That is a subjective take that's mainly in your head. Wow that’s gaslighty
- canadianfella 5y ago
  How so?
- LambdaComplex 5y ago
  It's gaslighty to say that a client that does not use SMS is not an SMS client?

temp667 5y ago

I can't help but wondering how many lives WhatsApp has helped. And it is definitely NOT an SMS client. The entire reason it has become so popular is that it does not use SMS. Before WhatsApp - the govt in these countries - supposedly looking out for the common good - allowed telecom carriers (usually giant oligarchs) to charge OBSENE per msg rates.

guenthert 5y ago
I do remember when SMS where actually free in Germany (where customarily telecoms charge you an arm & a leg). This led to people carrying mobile phones (era before smart phones), but only ever used SMS. You've seen them 'simsen' in bars, coffee shops, everywhere. Looked quite funny then (even though we appreciated that they stopped talking loudly on their phones all the time everywhere). I still can't quite get used to the view of people with a screen glued to their face.

Abishek_Muthian 5y ago

> I will never, ever, understand the "online" status feature. Fun fact: WhatsApp was initially just that i.e. It showed status of its users online and people started using it to share messages leading up to the development of full-fledged chat app. We may be from the same country, Where peer pressure to have a WhatsApp account is so high that friends and relatives get offended if you don't have one. So I have isolated WhatsApp to a android VM, it sends me an encrypted email of the incoming messages, lets know the sender the same and that they need to message me on Signal if expect faster reply[1]. [1] https://abishekmuthian.com/send-and-receive-whatsapp-messages-through-email/ https://abishekmuthian.com/send-and-receive-whatsapp-message...

perryizgr8 5y ago

Whatsapp has nothing to do with SMS? Why would you think so?

azepoi 5y ago
In some circles it has completely replaced SMS. While it has chating features, the normal message sms use case also takes place within whatsapp in these circles/countries.

murukesh_s 5y ago

Not sure if its country wise or only in newer versions, but you can turn off last seen and read receipt as well. go to account -> privacy if its available or try to upgrade.

guru4consulting 5y ago

you can turn on airplane mode, quickly check whatsapp messages, get out and turn off airplane mode. It is a dirty hack, but it also helps you to spend minimal time on whatsapp.