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With relegation and promotion is there no tournament between the promoted and relegated teams? Without this, it seems that the same teams could seesaw back and

With relegation and promotion is there no tournament between the promoted and relegated teams? Without this, it seems that the same teams could seesaw back and forth year to year.

jonwinstanley 6y ago
The league below the Premier League is even more competitive, there are 24 closely matched sides trying to gain promotion.
- mrob 6y ago
  The promotion and relegation system goes all the way down to amateur level. This chart is outdated but captures the complexity: http://thepyramid.info/asp/pyramid3.asp http://thepyramid.info/asp/pyramid3.asp A big part of the appeal of local football is the knowledge that your team could theoretically get promoted all the way to the top. A closed league goes against this sense of fairness.
  - wwtrv 6y ago
    But the only way that could realistically happen is if a large corporation or a wealthy individual bought the local club and replaced all of it’s players with significantly more expensive ones and I don’t see what’s particularly appealing about that. The closed American leagues are actually much fairer at least to the teams that are in them, TV money is split more evenly, there are caps on how much money can be spent on players and the teams at the bottom of the league table get more chances to acquire the more talented players due to the draft systems. Whereas in European football the pretty much the only thing that matters is how much money a club has to spend.
    - jonwinstanley 6y ago
      I kind of agree, but as all clubs have some sort of wealthy owner it becomes more about how well you use your money rather than how much you have. There are plenty of examples of rich clubs performing badly and less rich clubs punching above their weight.
    - bmsleight_ 6y ago
      AFC Wimbledon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Wimbledon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Wimbledon Combined Counties League divison 2 -> Two below premiership. Who beat a the team now 4th in premiership (West Ham) two season ago. No wealthy individual replacing all the players, just fans.
bijant 6y ago
In Germany the last two Teams are automatically relegated to the lower league while the third to last team of the higher and the third to the top team of the lower league fight it out in a two match decision. The relegated Teams usually are in big trouble financially as they have to balance their budgets while loosing a lot of income. If they renegotiate salaries with their players successfully and can increase contributions from their supporters to make up for the loss of TV Money they are in a good position to fight for promotion in the coming year. There are ample examples of Teams getting handed down from league to lower league down to the amateur leagues and never making it back to professional sports. Thats part of the excitement that keeps fans glued to their screens.
JohnBooty 6y ago
This is indeed somewhat the case. Looking at Cardiff City's long-term fortunes.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#/media/File:CardiffCityFC_League_Performance.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#/media/File:... There are clear long term trends over the decades, with the team slowing sinking down to the 4th tier in the late 90s and working its way back up. In the 2010's we can see see-sawing you mention: back and forth between the Championship and Premier leagues. They fight like hell to be promoted, quickly find themselves overmatched in the Premier League, and are then relegated. It's worth noting that the team's post-2000 rebirth corresponds with an influx of juicy cash via foreign investment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#Foreign_investment_(2000%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#Foreign_inve... So, I mean, it's a "meritocracy" but it's still largely dependent on who's got the money because they can afford the best players and player development.

With relegation and promotion is there no tournament between the promoted and relegated teams? Without this, it seems that the same teams could seesaw back and forth year to year.

jonwinstanley 6y ago

The league below the Premier League is even more competitive, there are 24 closely matched sides trying to gain promotion.

mrob 6y ago
The promotion and relegation system goes all the way down to amateur level. This chart is outdated but captures the complexity: http://thepyramid.info/asp/pyramid3.asp http://thepyramid.info/asp/pyramid3.asp A big part of the appeal of local football is the knowledge that your team could theoretically get promoted all the way to the top. A closed league goes against this sense of fairness.
- wwtrv 6y ago
  But the only way that could realistically happen is if a large corporation or a wealthy individual bought the local club and replaced all of it’s players with significantly more expensive ones and I don’t see what’s particularly appealing about that. The closed American leagues are actually much fairer at least to the teams that are in them, TV money is split more evenly, there are caps on how much money can be spent on players and the teams at the bottom of the league table get more chances to acquire the more talented players due to the draft systems. Whereas in European football the pretty much the only thing that matters is how much money a club has to spend.
  - jonwinstanley 6y ago
    I kind of agree, but as all clubs have some sort of wealthy owner it becomes more about how well you use your money rather than how much you have. There are plenty of examples of rich clubs performing badly and less rich clubs punching above their weight.
  - bmsleight_ 6y ago
    AFC Wimbledon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Wimbledon https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/AFC_Wimbledon Combined Counties League divison 2 -> Two below premiership. Who beat a the team now 4th in premiership (West Ham) two season ago. No wealthy individual replacing all the players, just fans.

bijant 6y ago

In Germany the last two Teams are automatically relegated to the lower league while the third to last team of the higher and the third to the top team of the lower league fight it out in a two match decision. The relegated Teams usually are in big trouble financially as they have to balance their budgets while loosing a lot of income. If they renegotiate salaries with their players successfully and can increase contributions from their supporters to make up for the loss of TV Money they are in a good position to fight for promotion in the coming year. There are ample examples of Teams getting handed down from league to lower league down to the amateur leagues and never making it back to professional sports. Thats part of the excitement that keeps fans glued to their screens.

JohnBooty 6y ago

This is indeed somewhat the case. Looking at Cardiff City's long-term fortunes.... https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#/media/File:CardiffCityFC_League_Performance.svg https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#/media/File:... There are clear long term trends over the decades, with the team slowing sinking down to the 4th tier in the late 90s and working its way back up. In the 2010's we can see see-sawing you mention: back and forth between the Championship and Premier leagues. They fight like hell to be promoted, quickly find themselves overmatched in the Premier League, and are then relegated. It's worth noting that the team's post-2000 rebirth corresponds with an influx of juicy cash via foreign investment: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#Foreign_investment_(2000%E2%80%93present) https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cardiff_City_F.C.#Foreign_inve... So, I mean, it's a "meritocracy" but it's still largely dependent on who's got the money because they can afford the best players and player development.