3 ms·

Yep. To take a physical-world analogy: Would it be okay to try and prove the vulnerability of a country's water supply by intentionally introducing a "harmless"

Yep. To take a physical-world analogy: Would it be okay to try and prove the vulnerability of a country's water supply by intentionally introducing a "harmless" chemical into the treatment works, without the consent of the works owners? Or would that be a go directly to jail sort of an experiment? I share the researchers' intellectual curiosity about whether this would work, but I don't see how a properly-informed ethics board could ever have passed it.

Avamander 6y ago
> Would it be okay to try and prove the vulnerability of a country's water supply by intentionally introducing a "harmless" chemical into the treatment works, without the consent of the works owners? The question should also be due to who's neglect they gained access to the "water supply". If you also truly want to make this comparison.
- corty 6y ago
  The question is also: "Will this research have benefits?" If the conclusion is "well, you can get access to the water supply and the only means to prevent it is to closely guard every brook, lake and river, needing half the population as guards". Well, then it is useless. And taking risks for useless research is unethical, no matter how minor those risks might be.
  - Avamander 6y ago
    > If the conclusion is "well, you can get access to the water supply and the only means to prevent it is to closely guard every brook, lake and river, needing half the population as guards". I don't think that was the conclusion.
    - corty 6y ago
      And what was? I cannot find constructive criticism in the related paper or any of your comments.
md_ 6y ago
https://www.theonion.com/reporters-expose-airport-security-lapses-by-blowing-up-1819594671 https://www.theonion.com/reporters-expose-airport-security-l...
deleted 6y ago
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rcxdude 6y ago
The US navy did actually basically this with some pathogens in the 50s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray ; the idea of 'ethical oversight' was not something a lot of scientists operated under in those days.

Avamander 6y ago

> Would it be okay to try and prove the vulnerability of a country's water supply by intentionally introducing a "harmless" chemical into the treatment works, without the consent of the works owners? The question should also be due to who's neglect they gained access to the "water supply". If you also truly want to make this comparison.

corty 6y ago
The question is also: "Will this research have benefits?" If the conclusion is "well, you can get access to the water supply and the only means to prevent it is to closely guard every brook, lake and river, needing half the population as guards". Well, then it is useless. And taking risks for useless research is unethical, no matter how minor those risks might be.
- Avamander 6y ago
  > If the conclusion is "well, you can get access to the water supply and the only means to prevent it is to closely guard every brook, lake and river, needing half the population as guards". I don't think that was the conclusion.
  - corty 6y ago
    And what was? I cannot find constructive criticism in the related paper or any of your comments.

md_ 6y ago

https://www.theonion.com/reporters-expose-airport-security-lapses-by-blowing-up-1819594671 https://www.theonion.com/reporters-expose-airport-security-l...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

rcxdude 6y ago

The US navy did actually basically this with some pathogens in the 50s: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Sea-Spray ; the idea of 'ethical oversight' was not something a lot of scientists operated under in those days.