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How do you deal with the inherent inefficiency of having a separate vehicle for every passenger (or small group of passengers)? Publicness is not the only bene

How do you deal with the inherent inefficiency of having a separate vehicle for every passenger (or small group of passengers)? Publicness is not the only benefit of public transportation. Trains and buses are incredibly efficient per passenger mile. They also take up a lot less space than cars, and last longer and cost less per passenger to manufacture. Making a car driverless doesn't solve these problems.

pavel_lishin 15y ago
It wouldn't necessarily have to be the only public transit option. In New York, I can get to work by train much faster than by car - but if I need to go to, say, Ikea, it's two trains and a bus. A cheap, public car would be great.
- DanielStraight 15y ago
  I agree completely. I don't necessary think it's a bad idea, I just don't think it's a good idea "instead of big trains and buses."
mkr-hn 15y ago
I think of this more as dealing with the present (and unpleasant) reality. I prefer buses and trains, but we haven't found a way to get people to fund and use them enough to make them viable outside big cities. A lot of the gridlock in my city comes from people doing stupid things that force other drivers to slow down to avoid a wreck. Automated cars would reduce the impact of bad drivers by removing them from the equation.
- deleted 15y ago
  [deleted]
- spoold 15y ago
  "we haven't found a way to get people to fund and use them enough to make them viable outside big cities" "We" being? I live in a village of <5000 and have access to a frequent train service into London, and another hub in the other direction. From there I can get to pretty much any town in the country in typically no more than three hops, and usually quicker than I could drive. It's not perfect, and funding /is/ a problem, but please don't assume that your experience is universal, or that yours is the only country represented here.
bdhe 15y ago
A country like the US, especially with vast suburban areas, it isn't necessarily a strict dichotomy between public transport and driverless cars. We can have both. Especially in the west coast, American cities were built to be navigated by cars. Even today, the very fact that carpool lanes in most parts of California are designated for 2 people/car, not 3 implies we already have separate vehicles for each passenger. If we can take advantage of the road infrastructure and cut down on the need to own a car, it will be a huge benefit to lots of people. See how popular ZipCar is, precisely because of this sort of benefit.
- erikpukinskis 15y ago
  Google Transit already offers you choices when you want to go from A to B. It could do the same thing with driverless cars. Want to take one the whole way? That'll be 60 minutes and cost $12.50. Or you can can take the driverless car to the train, which will take you the rest of the way. $7.50, and takes 1h20 minutes.
  - mkr-hn 15y ago
    I know someone who spent some time in one of Japan's smaller prefectures. He hated how all the trains stopped promptly at midnight, making late night things impossible. Something like this would let you take a train there and an automatic car back.
    - checker 15y ago
      This will definitely benefit bars. I would love to see drunk driving become a thing of the past at some point in my lifetime.
dkokelley 15y ago
Theoretically, driverless cars could be programmed to behave in a collective fashion. Yes, a train is incredibly efficient when 300 people need to go from the same place to a different place. But in reality, 300 people are coming from 300 places and going 300 places. Driverless cars could calculate partial carpools or transfers to more efficient vehicles like trains depending on the needs of the commuters. A "smart car" could drop the commuter(s) off at the train station, and another car could pick the commuter(s) up for the final leg of their trip.
- graywh 15y ago
  This. A few weeks ago, I left my house for the grocery 2 miles away. I followed a car from my subdivision to the grocery. After shopping, I followed the same car back from the grocery to my subdivision.
  - groby_b 15y ago
    Of course, this points out a failure in public engineering, not the need for automated cars. (As much as I'd love to have them) Urban sprawl is a gigantic problem that we need to address, and soon. It not only affects transportation - there's general maintenance cost, social effects, land use, etc.
- billybob 15y ago
  More likely, driverless cars will be programmed to make really, really long commutes. How far would you be willing to commute right now? OK, what if you could sleep or play videogames en route?
  - dkokelley 15y ago
    I commute about 1:15:00 each way, each day. I carpool, so I can read my iPad for two hours a day. It certainly helps with the drive time. But you can do the same on a train or bus already. I think part of why people don't use them as much is because of the inconvenience of working around their schedule, and first and last mile commutes (because the train doesn't go to your office). Networked, driverless cars could play a part in the larger public transport system to alleviate these two points of pain of commuters.
Cushman 15y ago
The de facto standard in this country is one dedicated car per person, which spends 90% of its time sitting in a parking space. Communally shared cars will be massively more efficient than that, and, unlike buses and trains, will actually replace dedicated vehicles for a majority — some day 100% — of users. The public transportation the public uses beats the one they don't. Not to mention that communal vehicles would make electric cars suitable for any length of trip— Forget about exchanging batteries, just swap cars at the charging station.
- spoold 15y ago
  "The de facto standard in this country" Which country? It's a global problem (and this is a global forum). Kudos to Nevada for having the presence and foresight to pass this legislation. It opens up a world of possibilities for future transport options, and whilst it will take a while for the public to catch up and accept both the technology, and the transport changes it enables, this is a huge step in the right direction.
  - Cushman 15y ago
    What country is Nevada in? I'm not blind to the existence of transportation issues in other countries, but insufficient (read "nonexistent") public transportation is often noted as a predominantly (while not uniquely) American problem. Certainly we represent the archetype of the "one car per person" catastrophe. The emergence of communal, computer-controlled electric vehicles could turn that around completely, so I don't think it's too out of line to be talking primarily about America at this stage.
    - spoold 15y ago
      "What country is Nevada in?" Spain for one. I know which Nevada the legislation was passed in, but your comment made the implicit assumption that everyone reading it is in the US. "insufficient (read "nonexistent") public transportation is often noted as a predominantly (while not uniquely) American problem" As is egocentrism.
presidentender 15y ago
More accurately, trains and buses can be incredibly efficient per passenger mile. Anecdotes are not data, but our local buses (city of ~50k) rarely have more than one rider, and a plurality of those I see have zero riders. In our case, these autonomous cars would be a much more efficient solution.
- InnocentB 15y ago
  "More efficient than a bus system nobody uses" is a pretty low bar. In your city's case, shutting down the bus system and having everyone currently riding the bus take (potentially subsidized) taxis would be way more efficient, both environmentally and financially.
rmc 15y ago
But people don't use them that much! In theory trains and buses are more effecient, but since they aren't used that much, that means people don't care about that.
afterburner 15y ago
I've always thought it would be neat to combine the public transport with the public car idea. Have parking lots full of public cars available at the station stops (and really big ones at the end of the subway line). You'll have to be able to keep one of these public cars at your place overnight for it to work (unless it drives itself home empty!).
cma 15y ago
There isn't that much inherit inefficiency; if the cars are smart they can drive in a train configuration, imagine this without the mechanical linkages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train

pavel_lishin 15y ago

It wouldn't necessarily have to be the only public transit option. In New York, I can get to work by train much faster than by car - but if I need to go to, say, Ikea, it's two trains and a bus. A cheap, public car would be great.

DanielStraight 15y ago
I agree completely. I don't necessary think it's a bad idea, I just don't think it's a good idea "instead of big trains and buses."

mkr-hn 15y ago

I think of this more as dealing with the present (and unpleasant) reality. I prefer buses and trains, but we haven't found a way to get people to fund and use them enough to make them viable outside big cities. A lot of the gridlock in my city comes from people doing stupid things that force other drivers to slow down to avoid a wreck. Automated cars would reduce the impact of bad drivers by removing them from the equation.

deleted 15y ago
[deleted]
spoold 15y ago
"we haven't found a way to get people to fund and use them enough to make them viable outside big cities" "We" being? I live in a village of <5000 and have access to a frequent train service into London, and another hub in the other direction. From there I can get to pretty much any town in the country in typically no more than three hops, and usually quicker than I could drive. It's not perfect, and funding /is/ a problem, but please don't assume that your experience is universal, or that yours is the only country represented here.

bdhe 15y ago

A country like the US, especially with vast suburban areas, it isn't necessarily a strict dichotomy between public transport and driverless cars. We can have both. Especially in the west coast, American cities were built to be navigated by cars. Even today, the very fact that carpool lanes in most parts of California are designated for 2 people/car, not 3 implies we already have separate vehicles for each passenger. If we can take advantage of the road infrastructure and cut down on the need to own a car, it will be a huge benefit to lots of people. See how popular ZipCar is, precisely because of this sort of benefit.

erikpukinskis 15y ago
Google Transit already offers you choices when you want to go from A to B. It could do the same thing with driverless cars. Want to take one the whole way? That'll be 60 minutes and cost $12.50. Or you can can take the driverless car to the train, which will take you the rest of the way. $7.50, and takes 1h20 minutes.
- mkr-hn 15y ago
  I know someone who spent some time in one of Japan's smaller prefectures. He hated how all the trains stopped promptly at midnight, making late night things impossible. Something like this would let you take a train there and an automatic car back.
  - checker 15y ago
    This will definitely benefit bars. I would love to see drunk driving become a thing of the past at some point in my lifetime.

dkokelley 15y ago

Theoretically, driverless cars could be programmed to behave in a collective fashion. Yes, a train is incredibly efficient when 300 people need to go from the same place to a different place. But in reality, 300 people are coming from 300 places and going 300 places. Driverless cars could calculate partial carpools or transfers to more efficient vehicles like trains depending on the needs of the commuters. A "smart car" could drop the commuter(s) off at the train station, and another car could pick the commuter(s) up for the final leg of their trip.

graywh 15y ago
This. A few weeks ago, I left my house for the grocery 2 miles away. I followed a car from my subdivision to the grocery. After shopping, I followed the same car back from the grocery to my subdivision.
- groby_b 15y ago
  Of course, this points out a failure in public engineering, not the need for automated cars. (As much as I'd love to have them) Urban sprawl is a gigantic problem that we need to address, and soon. It not only affects transportation - there's general maintenance cost, social effects, land use, etc.
billybob 15y ago
More likely, driverless cars will be programmed to make really, really long commutes. How far would you be willing to commute right now? OK, what if you could sleep or play videogames en route?
- dkokelley 15y ago
  I commute about 1:15:00 each way, each day. I carpool, so I can read my iPad for two hours a day. It certainly helps with the drive time. But you can do the same on a train or bus already. I think part of why people don't use them as much is because of the inconvenience of working around their schedule, and first and last mile commutes (because the train doesn't go to your office). Networked, driverless cars could play a part in the larger public transport system to alleviate these two points of pain of commuters.

Cushman 15y ago

The de facto standard in this country is one dedicated car per person, which spends 90% of its time sitting in a parking space. Communally shared cars will be massively more efficient than that, and, unlike buses and trains, will actually replace dedicated vehicles for a majority — some day 100% — of users. The public transportation the public uses beats the one they don't. Not to mention that communal vehicles would make electric cars suitable for any length of trip— Forget about exchanging batteries, just swap cars at the charging station.

spoold 15y ago
"The de facto standard in this country" Which country? It's a global problem (and this is a global forum). Kudos to Nevada for having the presence and foresight to pass this legislation. It opens up a world of possibilities for future transport options, and whilst it will take a while for the public to catch up and accept both the technology, and the transport changes it enables, this is a huge step in the right direction.
- Cushman 15y ago
  What country is Nevada in? I'm not blind to the existence of transportation issues in other countries, but insufficient (read "nonexistent") public transportation is often noted as a predominantly (while not uniquely) American problem. Certainly we represent the archetype of the "one car per person" catastrophe. The emergence of communal, computer-controlled electric vehicles could turn that around completely, so I don't think it's too out of line to be talking primarily about America at this stage.
  - spoold 15y ago
    "What country is Nevada in?" Spain for one. I know which Nevada the legislation was passed in, but your comment made the implicit assumption that everyone reading it is in the US. "insufficient (read "nonexistent") public transportation is often noted as a predominantly (while not uniquely) American problem" As is egocentrism.

presidentender 15y ago

More accurately, trains and buses can be incredibly efficient per passenger mile. Anecdotes are not data, but our local buses (city of ~50k) rarely have more than one rider, and a plurality of those I see have zero riders. In our case, these autonomous cars would be a much more efficient solution.

InnocentB 15y ago
"More efficient than a bus system nobody uses" is a pretty low bar. In your city's case, shutting down the bus system and having everyone currently riding the bus take (potentially subsidized) taxis would be way more efficient, both environmentally and financially.

rmc 15y ago

But people don't use them that much! In theory trains and buses are more effecient, but since they aren't used that much, that means people don't care about that.

afterburner 15y ago

I've always thought it would be neat to combine the public transport with the public car idea. Have parking lots full of public cars available at the station stops (and really big ones at the end of the subway line). You'll have to be able to keep one of these public cars at your place overnight for it to work (unless it drives itself home empty!).

cma 15y ago

There isn't that much inherit inefficiency; if the cars are smart they can drive in a train configuration, imagine this without the mechanical linkages: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Road_train