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> The practice is basically unknown among lesbians You must be traveling in some weird circles, because more than half the lesbians I know are in open or poly

by fwip 6y ago

> The practice is basically unknown among lesbians You must be traveling in some weird circles, because more than half the lesbians I know are in open or poly relationships. (Me, my wife, and most of my social circles are wow, so it's not like I'm basing this off of knowing four lesbians.) > lesbian culture is, arguably, centred on poetry. Okay, yeah, I'm not sure you really have met any lesbians.

retrac 6y ago
> You must be traveling in some weird circles I was being too hyperbolic in my writing and it did a disservice to the ideas I was trying to communicate. I am sorry. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5958351/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5958351/ > 32% of gay participants, 5% of lesbian participants, 22% of bisexual participants, and 14% of those who described their sexualities as “other” reported being in open relationships; approximately 8% of heterosexual participants, 14% of gay participants, 6% of lesbian participants, 18% of bisexual participants, and 6% of those who selected “other” for sexuality reported nonconsensual non-monogamy Those numbers surprised me too, in many ways. > Okay, yeah, I'm not sure you really have met any lesbians. Again, I am sorry. I was being a bit tongue in cheek and failed to pull it off. Obviously sex clubs do not define gay male culture. either. I explained what I was thinking there elsewhere in a reply in this thread.
- morelisp 6y ago
  A sample size of 83 (open relationships) and 58 (gay/lesbian people) seems awfully low to draw any serious conclusions. It also does not break down sexuality by sex as far as I can see, so even if we take the data at face value it could say only that queer women are more likely to use a term other than "lesbian" than queer men are to use one other than "gay" (an effect that's also been noted on other studies). With that sample size I would also have expected at least a couple non-binary responses.
  - retrac 6y ago
    The NHSSB has its flaws; one being that, given it was sampled from the US population at large, when you try to look at small minorities (and minorities within minorities) the data starts to dry up. It does have the breakdown by sex data you mention, though. There are other signs that point the same way. In 2019 a Canadian survey on open relationships (which did not look directly at sexual orientation) they found a remarkable gap between the % of men and women who report such a relationship would be ideal: 18% of men and 6% of women. -- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30932711/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30932711/ The data on number of sex partners is telling too. From a recent US population survey, the percent who report 3 or more sex partners in the last 12 months: 35% of gay/bisexual men, 15% of straight men, 6% of straight women, 17% of lesbians. -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293001/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293001/ A slightly older Australian study from the early 2000s is a bit more dramatic. Asking the number of partners in the previous five years, it found that for men who identified as homosexual, the mean was 32 and the median 7 partners, with the max capped at >2000 to stop skewing the numbers. For women identified as homosexual, it found a mean of 3 and a median of 1 partner with a maximum of 54. -- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14696706/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14696706/ Unfortunately all such studies tend to suffer from at least some of the same flaws you mention, with either sample size, reliability of sampling, or issues of identity confusing the situation. (In the Australian study, it seems women who reported multiple same-sex partners identified as heterosexual relatively more often, for example, which follows the pattern of what you noted.) The particular numbers vary from study to study, but this general pattern is almost always there. While the median number of partners among gay men tends to only be a bit higher than among straight men, the mean is always outright hilarious. A large minority of gay men are quite promiscuous, and there just is not an equivalently-sized phenomenon with women who have same-sex relationships.

by fwip 6y ago

retrac 6y ago

> You must be traveling in some weird circles I was being too hyperbolic in my writing and it did a disservice to the ideas I was trying to communicate. I am sorry. https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5958351/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC5958351/ > 32% of gay participants, 5% of lesbian participants, 22% of bisexual participants, and 14% of those who described their sexualities as “other” reported being in open relationships; approximately 8% of heterosexual participants, 14% of gay participants, 6% of lesbian participants, 18% of bisexual participants, and 6% of those who selected “other” for sexuality reported nonconsensual non-monogamy Those numbers surprised me too, in many ways. > Okay, yeah, I'm not sure you really have met any lesbians. Again, I am sorry. I was being a bit tongue in cheek and failed to pull it off. Obviously sex clubs do not define gay male culture. either. I explained what I was thinking there elsewhere in a reply in this thread.

morelisp 6y ago
A sample size of 83 (open relationships) and 58 (gay/lesbian people) seems awfully low to draw any serious conclusions. It also does not break down sexuality by sex as far as I can see, so even if we take the data at face value it could say only that queer women are more likely to use a term other than "lesbian" than queer men are to use one other than "gay" (an effect that's also been noted on other studies). With that sample size I would also have expected at least a couple non-binary responses.
- retrac 6y ago
  The NHSSB has its flaws; one being that, given it was sampled from the US population at large, when you try to look at small minorities (and minorities within minorities) the data starts to dry up. It does have the breakdown by sex data you mention, though. There are other signs that point the same way. In 2019 a Canadian survey on open relationships (which did not look directly at sexual orientation) they found a remarkable gap between the % of men and women who report such a relationship would be ideal: 18% of men and 6% of women. -- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30932711/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/30932711/ The data on number of sex partners is telling too. From a recent US population survey, the percent who report 3 or more sex partners in the last 12 months: 35% of gay/bisexual men, 15% of straight men, 6% of straight women, 17% of lesbians. -- https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293001/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7293001/ A slightly older Australian study from the early 2000s is a bit more dramatic. Asking the number of partners in the previous five years, it found that for men who identified as homosexual, the mean was 32 and the median 7 partners, with the max capped at >2000 to stop skewing the numbers. For women identified as homosexual, it found a mean of 3 and a median of 1 partner with a maximum of 54. -- https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14696706/ https://pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/14696706/ Unfortunately all such studies tend to suffer from at least some of the same flaws you mention, with either sample size, reliability of sampling, or issues of identity confusing the situation. (In the Australian study, it seems women who reported multiple same-sex partners identified as heterosexual relatively more often, for example, which follows the pattern of what you noted.) The particular numbers vary from study to study, but this general pattern is almost always there. While the median number of partners among gay men tends to only be a bit higher than among straight men, the mean is always outright hilarious. A large minority of gay men are quite promiscuous, and there just is not an equivalently-sized phenomenon with women who have same-sex relationships.