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Not knowledgable in the biology area so forgive any incorrect terminologies or assumptions in advance. mRNA sounds incredible. As I understand the vaccines wo

Not knowledgable in the biology area so forgive any incorrect terminologies or assumptions in advance. mRNA sounds incredible. As I understand the vaccines work by injecting an mRNA sequence which produces a certain spike protein to defend against certain viruses. In contrast, cells here are not producing the mRNA. Do these injected mRNA eventually phase out and die out from the body? Typically what is the lifetime? Is there also some 'off' mode, or complementary vaccine to undo an injection say after learning of some serious affect?

homero 6y ago
mRNA don't last long at all. The challenge was making them last long enough to even work. https://www.mskcc.org/coronavirus/what-s-different-about-messenger-rna-vaccines-covid-19 https://www.mskcc.org/coronavirus/what-s-different-about-mes...
Arelius 6y ago
As I understand it, there are natural mechanisms that break down the mRNA. At least in the article about reverse engineering the vaccine, they state that that "The mRNA vaccines quickly degrade in the human body" https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source... I think also the instability is a large component of why the vaccines must be stored at such low temperatures.
- wolfi1 6y ago
  >I think also the instability is a large component of why the vaccines must be stored at such low temperatures. As I understand it, the low temperatures are partly required because of the liposomes the mRNA is "packed" into
  - danwills 6y ago
    As I understand the instability of mRNA in the general cell background cytoplasm is because of the presence of enzymatic molecules (produced by the cell) that attract and then break down (lyse) any mRNA that floats into their 'jaws'. Loads of different things get broken-down by this kind of background presence of some enzyme, and since mRNA is used by the cell itself, maybe not too surprising that it has a cleanup mechanism in-place already?
    - danwills 6y ago
      Commented at the wrong level sorry!, I didn't respond to what parent post was saying, meant to extend elsewhere...
Fomite 6y ago
mRNA does phase out - they're blueprints that are broken down when they're not needed. The half-life of them is measured in hours: http://book.bionumbers.org/how-fast-do-rnas-and-proteins-degrade/ http://book.bionumbers.org/how-fast-do-rnas-and-proteins-deg... Edit: As noted in a comment, the half-life for the vaccine-related mRNA strands are longer, by design, so they produce more spike protein, but they remain fairly transient.
- hartator 6y ago
  Moderna and Pfizer mRNA half life is actually 10 and 14 days. The human one is indeed hours. Which is fine but it’s indeed not clear in their communication.
  - franklyt 6y ago
    That’s a huge difference. Do you have a citation for this claim? I don’t doubt you, but, wow.
    - hoseja 6y ago
      You can probably design the fragment so it doesn't mesh well with the recycling apparatus of the human cell but still works for transcription.
    - inglor_cz 6y ago
      https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/ Look at the section 4.1. Molecular Stabilization. Yes, it is a challenge, but a challenge that has been overcome.
- throwawaysea 6y ago
  For GP’s comment, what happens to vaccine components that are “broken down”? It’s not just the mRNA in there right? There are other compounds to aid in delivering and stabilizing the dose. A serious side effect known only in the future may not specifically arise from the broken down mRNA. So does the body flush out (pardon my informality/ignorance on the right terminology) all the components of the vaccine somehow?
jzer0cool 6y ago
That's how I understood so appreciate all the above responses in response to mRNA Do Not last long. First I think it is quite incredible to have such a vaccination out so quickly. As the pandemic eases are we in a situation needing to continue booster shots say on some reoccurring basis as a preventative measure? I am not very clear on the virus itself whether it eventually gets eradicated over time. Or something a bit more reactive where it is possible to get a shot after infected or having symptoms and whether mRNA works in this way as well on a reactive basis.
- valarauko 6y ago
  > * As the pandemic eases are we in a situation needing to continue booster shots say on some reoccurring basis as a preventative measure?* Most likely. SARS-CoV-2 is now endemic in the human population & unlikely to die out. The general impression in the scientific community is that the current set of vaccines should be protective for at least a year or two, at which point variants will have emerged that evade the vaccines developed on the Wuhan strain. Booster shots developed on these new variants would be required for the foreseeable future. > Or something a bit more reactive where it is possible to get a shot after infected or having symptoms and whether mRNA works in this way as well on a reactive basis. In principle this is possible - some vaccines are capable of arresting an active infection, though that is highly specific to certain pathogens. This is not something current COVID vaccines can do.
- Tagbert 6y ago
  The mRNA vaccine process has been developed over the last 10 years or so. The actual spike protein was identified early, so the main work was to create the mRAN sequence for that protein. Not easy but the tools have gotten much better in recent years. This was the first large-scale use of this kind of vaccine so it is an amazing field test of the process. Normally that would be a slower, incremental process but the risk from Covid forced them to simplify and speed up the process.
AareyBaba 6y ago
This video on the mRNA vaccines has answers in good detail to how these vaccines work https://youtu.be/35Idb_lCU4o?t=777 https://youtu.be/35Idb_lCU4o?t=777
kolinko 6y ago
A nice analogy to tech - mRNA is like RAM, DNA is like a hard drive.
GoblinSlayer 6y ago
>Do these injected mRNA eventually phase out and die out from the body? Immunity as a service, with subscription model.
- valarauko 6y ago
  IaaS Kween
m-p-3 6y ago
Here's a fairly accessible video on how mRNA vaccines work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kfdZ8o_j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kfdZ8o_j4

homero 6y ago

mRNA don't last long at all. The challenge was making them last long enough to even work. https://www.mskcc.org/coronavirus/what-s-different-about-messenger-rna-vaccines-covid-19 https://www.mskcc.org/coronavirus/what-s-different-about-mes...

Arelius 6y ago

As I understand it, there are natural mechanisms that break down the mRNA. At least in the article about reverse engineering the vaccine, they state that that "The mRNA vaccines quickly degrade in the human body" https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source-code-of-the-biontech-pfizer-vaccine/ https://berthub.eu/articles/posts/reverse-engineering-source... I think also the instability is a large component of why the vaccines must be stored at such low temperatures.

wolfi1 6y ago
>I think also the instability is a large component of why the vaccines must be stored at such low temperatures. As I understand it, the low temperatures are partly required because of the liposomes the mRNA is "packed" into
- danwills 6y ago
  As I understand the instability of mRNA in the general cell background cytoplasm is because of the presence of enzymatic molecules (produced by the cell) that attract and then break down (lyse) any mRNA that floats into their 'jaws'. Loads of different things get broken-down by this kind of background presence of some enzyme, and since mRNA is used by the cell itself, maybe not too surprising that it has a cleanup mechanism in-place already?
  - danwills 6y ago
    Commented at the wrong level sorry!, I didn't respond to what parent post was saying, meant to extend elsewhere...

Fomite 6y ago

mRNA does phase out - they're blueprints that are broken down when they're not needed. The half-life of them is measured in hours: http://book.bionumbers.org/how-fast-do-rnas-and-proteins-degrade/ http://book.bionumbers.org/how-fast-do-rnas-and-proteins-deg... Edit: As noted in a comment, the half-life for the vaccine-related mRNA strands are longer, by design, so they produce more spike protein, but they remain fairly transient.

hartator 6y ago
Moderna and Pfizer mRNA half life is actually 10 and 14 days. The human one is indeed hours. Which is fine but it’s indeed not clear in their communication.
- franklyt 6y ago
  That’s a huge difference. Do you have a citation for this claim? I don’t doubt you, but, wow.
  - hoseja 6y ago
    You can probably design the fragment so it doesn't mesh well with the recycling apparatus of the human cell but still works for transcription.
  - inglor_cz 6y ago
    https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/ https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC7076378/ Look at the section 4.1. Molecular Stabilization. Yes, it is a challenge, but a challenge that has been overcome.
throwawaysea 6y ago
For GP’s comment, what happens to vaccine components that are “broken down”? It’s not just the mRNA in there right? There are other compounds to aid in delivering and stabilizing the dose. A serious side effect known only in the future may not specifically arise from the broken down mRNA. So does the body flush out (pardon my informality/ignorance on the right terminology) all the components of the vaccine somehow?

jzer0cool 6y ago

That's how I understood so appreciate all the above responses in response to mRNA Do Not last long. First I think it is quite incredible to have such a vaccination out so quickly. As the pandemic eases are we in a situation needing to continue booster shots say on some reoccurring basis as a preventative measure? I am not very clear on the virus itself whether it eventually gets eradicated over time. Or something a bit more reactive where it is possible to get a shot after infected or having symptoms and whether mRNA works in this way as well on a reactive basis.

valarauko 6y ago
> * As the pandemic eases are we in a situation needing to continue booster shots say on some reoccurring basis as a preventative measure?* Most likely. SARS-CoV-2 is now endemic in the human population & unlikely to die out. The general impression in the scientific community is that the current set of vaccines should be protective for at least a year or two, at which point variants will have emerged that evade the vaccines developed on the Wuhan strain. Booster shots developed on these new variants would be required for the foreseeable future. > Or something a bit more reactive where it is possible to get a shot after infected or having symptoms and whether mRNA works in this way as well on a reactive basis. In principle this is possible - some vaccines are capable of arresting an active infection, though that is highly specific to certain pathogens. This is not something current COVID vaccines can do.
Tagbert 6y ago
The mRNA vaccine process has been developed over the last 10 years or so. The actual spike protein was identified early, so the main work was to create the mRAN sequence for that protein. Not easy but the tools have gotten much better in recent years. This was the first large-scale use of this kind of vaccine so it is an amazing field test of the process. Normally that would be a slower, incremental process but the risk from Covid forced them to simplify and speed up the process.

AareyBaba 6y ago

This video on the mRNA vaccines has answers in good detail to how these vaccines work https://youtu.be/35Idb_lCU4o?t=777 https://youtu.be/35Idb_lCU4o?t=777

kolinko 6y ago

A nice analogy to tech - mRNA is like RAM, DNA is like a hard drive.

GoblinSlayer 6y ago

>Do these injected mRNA eventually phase out and die out from the body? Immunity as a service, with subscription model.

valarauko 6y ago
IaaS Kween

m-p-3 6y ago

Here's a fairly accessible video on how mRNA vaccines work. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kfdZ8o_j4 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z0kfdZ8o_j4