20 ms·

Augmented reality will exacerbate our unhealthy relationship with technology

36 points by dsisson 5y ago

deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
dsisson 5y ago
AR as we're currently thinking about it will be a nightmare.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  The reality of it will likely be worse than that.
chrisco255 5y ago
This article goes on a rant about AR and how it will be used for more spying, emotional manipulation, etc that social media has perpetrated. Then defends VR as somehow shielded from these things: "Most of us don’t have a healthy relationship with technology, and AR as currently thought of, will just exacerbate that. It’s why I really like VR more than AR, because VR is a separate world that you consciously decide to be in for a time." And yet the author fails to mention that a good chunk of the VR market is dominated by Facebook, one of the very companies doing the things he railed against. Already they force Facebook login with Oculus. So much for your imagined separation of virtual and real life.
- brundolf 5y ago
  Nobody checks constant notifications on their VR headset; few people mindlessly flip through content streams or empty games on it. The fact that VR is so cumbersome means it gravitates towards more intentional experiences. You decide you want to do X, so you set up your headset and do it. I say this as an owner of one myself. Of course the more the technology improves the less true this becomes. But for now there's a meaningful difference.
  - chrisco255 5y ago
    The entire Oculus experience is being mined for data. From what you look at to how violent you are in a game to what sites you visit in-app browsers. Your mannerisms. Your voice. Your movement and reflexes. You think you decide, but you are more impressionable than you think. Your emotions will be exploited in this new medium even more effectively than the rectangular screen, because you will feel embedded in whatever experience they pull you towards. Sure, it's cute gaming experiences now, just as Farmville was 11 years ago, but the nature of Facebook as a company (and the forced FB login means everything is 1:1 traceable with social network identity), means you and everyone else are going to be manipulated in these worlds. And they'll even be able to measure the effect on your social network activity.
- XorNot 5y ago
  It seems weird to state these as dangers of AR, when they're already so completely encompassed by "having a phone and a lack of critical thinking skills". There's a strong trend of assuming that "new thing" is going to be "existing problem but worse" without much justification - AR isn't exactly going to do anything which isn't already being done. People are already signed up to constant news alerts, and depending which service you pick, that projects a very specific and effective psychological profile. Like, by far the most common desire I see from people wanting some heralded perfect AR system is the ability to just ad-block real life. Imagine a world where all billboards, bus adverts, bus stop adverts etc. are just being replaced by white squares - where you are not being driven to subtly filter that out every moment of every day. I mean, the whiplash I get now when I don't have uBlock Origin in a web browser is incredible - all that visual noise is genuinely stressful to deal with.
crooked-v 5y ago
For my part I don't really care about "AR" as it actually applies to augmenting reality, and in fact I'm pretty sure that if I got such a device I'd have most of the functionality like that turned off, the same way I have most location-aware app functionality disabled on my phone and most notifications turned off on my smartwatch. I just like the idea of having a screen in my glasses that can replace carrying around a Kindle / iPad for reading and other light media consumption.
AdamJacobMuller 5y ago
Seems like this takes a very narrow view of AR and just focuses on every possible negative aspect and for every possible branch only considers the worst case scenario. Poor quality article. AR is merely a tool, how we as individuals chose to use it will define what impact is has on each of our lives.
- throwawayboise 5y ago
  We've done so well with social media.
mc32 5y ago
VR will be terrible because, yes, people will be manipulated through virtual realities made up for them to achieve different things. Some options will undoubtedly be good (learning and so on), Others will be worse than any FaceBook bubble + gaming/gambling + video games combined could ever be. Imagine the "re-educational" possibilities here for a sec. You get to plug in to any reality you want or someone wants for you and you get manipulated through these realities and you no longer live in actual reality but live in a virtual one fabricated for you and people like you and you get manipulated any which way the powers that be want you to be. Gamification will be rampant and will absorb people in to it. They will have little need for actual reality, be it relationships or much else.
- DC1350 5y ago
  > Gamification will be rampant and will absorb people in to it. When I see how much mundane grinding people are willing to do for video game rewards, it makes me wonder if status or cosmetics in a virtual world will ever be used in place of real compensation for work. Maybe as a gig economy thing? That would effectively give the world controllers the ability to create currency. Virtual economics are already huge and people work in them for fun.
  - mc32 5y ago
    There is so much abuse potential here. Psychologically, it has the potential to change what people are. They will be able to shape people as they see fit --just gamify to achieve whatever goal. There is no need to confront all the blemishes and warts of actual reality when you can have a perfect universe customized to you pleasing all your psychological needs. Everyone can have their own reality they live in. You can live your life within VR. The more you live in VR, the less you need from actual reality. It's a perfect way to indoctrinate and manipulate people however you wish. Anyone working on this should understand the consequences of their work down the road and get out and not contribute to this.
    - XorNot 5y ago
      Why should someone like you get to decide how anyone else chooses to spend their ~75 years of existence though? This whole post is just a statement of intent to manipulate people through other means "for their own good".
hinkley 5y ago
Between my hobbies and sports, something that has been driven home for me over the last 5-10 years is that there is so much going on around us that we never see. If we use AR to see things that are already there, that will be one thing. But odds are that we will instead use it to see things that aren't there.
- droopyEyelids 5y ago
  or to hide the unpleasant stuff that is there.
Throw6away 5y ago
Hyper-Reality shows what the AR could become in the most dystopian way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs
- Animats 5y ago
  That is the best presentation on the subject ever made.
- alfiedotwtf 5y ago
  Came here to post the same video, but I was coming from a positive viewpoint. Can't wait to get an interface like this, but have it open source so I can customise it however I want.
  - dariusj18 5y ago
    I agree, that's very cool. It's funny how some people see the utopia and others see the dystopia.
DigitalSea 5y ago
Augmented reality is the only thing I am excited for, more so than virtual reality is right now (and I say that as someone who has a couple of VR headsets around the house, the Reverb G2 and Valve Index). To me, VR will always be relegated to gaming and solo interactive experiences, augmented reality has already proven itself in fields such as medical and training purposes. Microsoft Hololens has been widely successful in the avenues they have pursued and deployed in, going as far back as 2016. I know some plants are using them for maintenance, if I recall elevator techs using them to repair elevators more efficiently, vehicle mechanics and more. The positives outweigh the negatives and it is sad to see the article only focuses on the downsides. Find me a technology that doesn't have a negative?
- imheretolearn 5y ago
  I disagree that positives will outweigh the negatives. AR and VR are more invasive* than mobile phones. If the ubiquity of mobile phones has taught us anything, it's that tech companies will gain even more access to your personal lives. I certainly see a point where tech companies will know you better than you and can predict your behavior with a fair margin of accuracy. I do agree that most technologies have downsides. Having said that, you do need to realize that we're biochemical beings and we are affected more by certain phenomena than others. I am pretty sure most people check their phones first thing after waking up and cell phones for all intents and purposes were virtually non-existent just 20 years ago. AR and VR will only amplify the dopamine hits which rewire our brains into performing certain actions. This will mean more leverage for the tech companies to influence you into doing things you wouldn't have otherwise. Remember that thing from Amazon you bought which you didn't really need? It's only going to become worse.
  - foobarbecue 5y ago
    > AR and VR are more pervasive than mobile phones. What? No they aren't... There's probably 10x more mobile phones than XR headsets... Did you mean invasive? Also, I really love that thing I bought from Amazon that I don't need so don't knock it!
  - rootusrootus 5y ago
rektide 5y ago
other people's augmented realities will be awful. an augmented reality we can holistically build our of pieces ourselves will be at fantastic deep frontier where countless people can define & shape themselves & their views. good of luck escaping out into a real metaverse, planet earth. few large participants on your planet will shoot for that greater good.
tootie 5y ago
Pokemon Go is fully 5 years old. It's AR feature was a decent gimmick but pretty basic and a bit buggy. In the subsequent 5 years there's been nothing to equal it. I won't say AR is "dead" but it seems unlikely to reach mainstream adoption any time soon.
- germinalphrase 5y ago
  The mistake being made is that audio based AR is here and practical, if underutilized. Apple’s transparency mode (and competitor equivalents) is a critical innovation both on usability and social acceptance levels. It supports the blending of digital augmentations on the real world. Audio based AR is also free of many social signs that visual AR systems have struggle with. In particular, I work with teenagers and there seems to be little stigma around holding a conversation with earbuds in place.
  - toomanybeersies 5y ago
    > there seems to be little stigma around holding a conversation with earbuds in place Maybe it's a generational or cultural thing, but I find that kind of thing incredibly rude. But I'm also the kind of person who takes my sunglasses off when I'm talking face-to-face with other people.
    - germinalphrase 5y ago
      I find it rude as well, but it’s an important point for those producing AR tech to de-stigmatize.
- jayd16 5y ago
  The hardware for wearable AR isn't main stream yet. Handset AR doesn't have the same wow factor. We're only now coming to a self sustaining VR industry but things are still progressing.
- lostgame 5y ago
  Occlusion has gotten significantly better, for sure. That being said; there's still no 'killer app'.
deleted 5y ago
[deleted]
easton 5y ago
I always figured AR would be a replacement for my monitor(s) allowing cool new applications with space and wouldn't leave my workspace. Obviously, there are lots of applications when walking around, but not a whole lot I'd want (given that they can't come up with much that isn't Apple Watch/iPhone strapped to face). Maybe I'll never get my dream of carrying a pair of goggles in my backpack that can let me spread out my work beyond the laptop screen in a hotel room or on a plane.
aaron695 5y ago
Augmented reality will never exist. So lucky Even in the movies all they can come up with is ads. Anything useful it might be able to do makes the task redundant. It can tell you how to put together your IKEA furniture, then it could tell a robot what to do.
- toast0 5y ago
  Robot arms are cool and do all sorts of things human arms can't, however, human arms are way better at manipulating objects in the wild. You can program robots to build furniture, but programming them to build furniture from a box in my house is not going to be worth the effort.
  - aaron695 5y ago
    Programming AR to understand how to build IKEA from a box in a house is also not worth the effort. Its amazingly hard to do. You'd need close to general AI, when we can do that we'll probably have general purpose robots in the home also.
Poche2233 5y ago
Thanks for the information keep sharing this type of post. https://www.oursainsburys.biz/ https://www.oursainsburys.biz/
drewcoo 5y ago
> We didn't evolve for this. No, we evolved to jump sharks. Just like that straying into purpose-driven evolution and just so stories did. Motivated reasoning. He had me until then, though.

36 points by dsisson 5y ago

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

dsisson 5y ago

AR as we're currently thinking about it will be a nightmare.

throwawayboise 5y ago
The reality of it will likely be worse than that.

chrisco255 5y ago

This article goes on a rant about AR and how it will be used for more spying, emotional manipulation, etc that social media has perpetrated. Then defends VR as somehow shielded from these things: "Most of us don’t have a healthy relationship with technology, and AR as currently thought of, will just exacerbate that. It’s why I really like VR more than AR, because VR is a separate world that you consciously decide to be in for a time." And yet the author fails to mention that a good chunk of the VR market is dominated by Facebook, one of the very companies doing the things he railed against. Already they force Facebook login with Oculus. So much for your imagined separation of virtual and real life.

brundolf 5y ago
Nobody checks constant notifications on their VR headset; few people mindlessly flip through content streams or empty games on it. The fact that VR is so cumbersome means it gravitates towards more intentional experiences. You decide you want to do X, so you set up your headset and do it. I say this as an owner of one myself. Of course the more the technology improves the less true this becomes. But for now there's a meaningful difference.
- chrisco255 5y ago
  The entire Oculus experience is being mined for data. From what you look at to how violent you are in a game to what sites you visit in-app browsers. Your mannerisms. Your voice. Your movement and reflexes. You think you decide, but you are more impressionable than you think. Your emotions will be exploited in this new medium even more effectively than the rectangular screen, because you will feel embedded in whatever experience they pull you towards. Sure, it's cute gaming experiences now, just as Farmville was 11 years ago, but the nature of Facebook as a company (and the forced FB login means everything is 1:1 traceable with social network identity), means you and everyone else are going to be manipulated in these worlds. And they'll even be able to measure the effect on your social network activity.
XorNot 5y ago
It seems weird to state these as dangers of AR, when they're already so completely encompassed by "having a phone and a lack of critical thinking skills". There's a strong trend of assuming that "new thing" is going to be "existing problem but worse" without much justification - AR isn't exactly going to do anything which isn't already being done. People are already signed up to constant news alerts, and depending which service you pick, that projects a very specific and effective psychological profile. Like, by far the most common desire I see from people wanting some heralded perfect AR system is the ability to just ad-block real life. Imagine a world where all billboards, bus adverts, bus stop adverts etc. are just being replaced by white squares - where you are not being driven to subtly filter that out every moment of every day. I mean, the whiplash I get now when I don't have uBlock Origin in a web browser is incredible - all that visual noise is genuinely stressful to deal with.

crooked-v 5y ago

For my part I don't really care about "AR" as it actually applies to augmenting reality, and in fact I'm pretty sure that if I got such a device I'd have most of the functionality like that turned off, the same way I have most location-aware app functionality disabled on my phone and most notifications turned off on my smartwatch. I just like the idea of having a screen in my glasses that can replace carrying around a Kindle / iPad for reading and other light media consumption.

AdamJacobMuller 5y ago

Seems like this takes a very narrow view of AR and just focuses on every possible negative aspect and for every possible branch only considers the worst case scenario. Poor quality article. AR is merely a tool, how we as individuals chose to use it will define what impact is has on each of our lives.

throwawayboise 5y ago
We've done so well with social media.

mc32 5y ago

VR will be terrible because, yes, people will be manipulated through virtual realities made up for them to achieve different things. Some options will undoubtedly be good (learning and so on), Others will be worse than any FaceBook bubble + gaming/gambling + video games combined could ever be. Imagine the "re-educational" possibilities here for a sec. You get to plug in to any reality you want or someone wants for you and you get manipulated through these realities and you no longer live in actual reality but live in a virtual one fabricated for you and people like you and you get manipulated any which way the powers that be want you to be. Gamification will be rampant and will absorb people in to it. They will have little need for actual reality, be it relationships or much else.

DC1350 5y ago
> Gamification will be rampant and will absorb people in to it. When I see how much mundane grinding people are willing to do for video game rewards, it makes me wonder if status or cosmetics in a virtual world will ever be used in place of real compensation for work. Maybe as a gig economy thing? That would effectively give the world controllers the ability to create currency. Virtual economics are already huge and people work in them for fun.
- mc32 5y ago
  There is so much abuse potential here. Psychologically, it has the potential to change what people are. They will be able to shape people as they see fit --just gamify to achieve whatever goal. There is no need to confront all the blemishes and warts of actual reality when you can have a perfect universe customized to you pleasing all your psychological needs. Everyone can have their own reality they live in. You can live your life within VR. The more you live in VR, the less you need from actual reality. It's a perfect way to indoctrinate and manipulate people however you wish. Anyone working on this should understand the consequences of their work down the road and get out and not contribute to this.
  - XorNot 5y ago
    Why should someone like you get to decide how anyone else chooses to spend their ~75 years of existence though? This whole post is just a statement of intent to manipulate people through other means "for their own good".

hinkley 5y ago

Between my hobbies and sports, something that has been driven home for me over the last 5-10 years is that there is so much going on around us that we never see. If we use AR to see things that are already there, that will be one thing. But odds are that we will instead use it to see things that aren't there.

droopyEyelids 5y ago
or to hide the unpleasant stuff that is there.

Throw6away 5y ago

Hyper-Reality shows what the AR could become in the most dystopian way: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YJg02ivYzSs

Animats 5y ago
That is the best presentation on the subject ever made.
alfiedotwtf 5y ago
Came here to post the same video, but I was coming from a positive viewpoint. Can't wait to get an interface like this, but have it open source so I can customise it however I want.
- dariusj18 5y ago
  I agree, that's very cool. It's funny how some people see the utopia and others see the dystopia.

DigitalSea 5y ago

Augmented reality is the only thing I am excited for, more so than virtual reality is right now (and I say that as someone who has a couple of VR headsets around the house, the Reverb G2 and Valve Index). To me, VR will always be relegated to gaming and solo interactive experiences, augmented reality has already proven itself in fields such as medical and training purposes. Microsoft Hololens has been widely successful in the avenues they have pursued and deployed in, going as far back as 2016. I know some plants are using them for maintenance, if I recall elevator techs using them to repair elevators more efficiently, vehicle mechanics and more. The positives outweigh the negatives and it is sad to see the article only focuses on the downsides. Find me a technology that doesn't have a negative?

imheretolearn 5y ago
I disagree that positives will outweigh the negatives. AR and VR are more invasive* than mobile phones. If the ubiquity of mobile phones has taught us anything, it's that tech companies will gain even more access to your personal lives. I certainly see a point where tech companies will know you better than you and can predict your behavior with a fair margin of accuracy. I do agree that most technologies have downsides. Having said that, you do need to realize that we're biochemical beings and we are affected more by certain phenomena than others. I am pretty sure most people check their phones first thing after waking up and cell phones for all intents and purposes were virtually non-existent just 20 years ago. AR and VR will only amplify the dopamine hits which rewire our brains into performing certain actions. This will mean more leverage for the tech companies to influence you into doing things you wouldn't have otherwise. Remember that thing from Amazon you bought which you didn't really need? It's only going to become worse.
- foobarbecue 5y ago
  > AR and VR are more pervasive than mobile phones. What? No they aren't... There's probably 10x more mobile phones than XR headsets... Did you mean invasive? Also, I really love that thing I bought from Amazon that I don't need so don't knock it!
- rootusrootus 5y ago

rektide 5y ago

other people's augmented realities will be awful. an augmented reality we can holistically build our of pieces ourselves will be at fantastic deep frontier where countless people can define & shape themselves & their views. good of luck escaping out into a real metaverse, planet earth. few large participants on your planet will shoot for that greater good.

tootie 5y ago

Pokemon Go is fully 5 years old. It's AR feature was a decent gimmick but pretty basic and a bit buggy. In the subsequent 5 years there's been nothing to equal it. I won't say AR is "dead" but it seems unlikely to reach mainstream adoption any time soon.

germinalphrase 5y ago
The mistake being made is that audio based AR is here and practical, if underutilized. Apple’s transparency mode (and competitor equivalents) is a critical innovation both on usability and social acceptance levels. It supports the blending of digital augmentations on the real world. Audio based AR is also free of many social signs that visual AR systems have struggle with. In particular, I work with teenagers and there seems to be little stigma around holding a conversation with earbuds in place.
- toomanybeersies 5y ago
  > there seems to be little stigma around holding a conversation with earbuds in place Maybe it's a generational or cultural thing, but I find that kind of thing incredibly rude. But I'm also the kind of person who takes my sunglasses off when I'm talking face-to-face with other people.
  - germinalphrase 5y ago
    I find it rude as well, but it’s an important point for those producing AR tech to de-stigmatize.
jayd16 5y ago
The hardware for wearable AR isn't main stream yet. Handset AR doesn't have the same wow factor. We're only now coming to a self sustaining VR industry but things are still progressing.
lostgame 5y ago
Occlusion has gotten significantly better, for sure. That being said; there's still no 'killer app'.

deleted 5y ago

[deleted]

easton 5y ago

I always figured AR would be a replacement for my monitor(s) allowing cool new applications with space and wouldn't leave my workspace. Obviously, there are lots of applications when walking around, but not a whole lot I'd want (given that they can't come up with much that isn't Apple Watch/iPhone strapped to face). Maybe I'll never get my dream of carrying a pair of goggles in my backpack that can let me spread out my work beyond the laptop screen in a hotel room or on a plane.

aaron695 5y ago

Augmented reality will never exist. So lucky Even in the movies all they can come up with is ads. Anything useful it might be able to do makes the task redundant. It can tell you how to put together your IKEA furniture, then it could tell a robot what to do.

toast0 5y ago
Robot arms are cool and do all sorts of things human arms can't, however, human arms are way better at manipulating objects in the wild. You can program robots to build furniture, but programming them to build furniture from a box in my house is not going to be worth the effort.
- aaron695 5y ago
  Programming AR to understand how to build IKEA from a box in a house is also not worth the effort. Its amazingly hard to do. You'd need close to general AI, when we can do that we'll probably have general purpose robots in the home also.

Poche2233 5y ago

Thanks for the information keep sharing this type of post. https://www.oursainsburys.biz/ https://www.oursainsburys.biz/

drewcoo 5y ago

> We didn't evolve for this. No, we evolved to jump sharks. Just like that straying into purpose-driven evolution and just so stories did. Motivated reasoning. He had me until then, though.