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I'm still skeptical that Apple wants it to be a general-purpose computer.

by f6v 6y ago

roody15 6y ago
It doesn’t. It is more a consumer console than personal computer IMO
intergalplan 6y ago
Personally, if they make it a general-purpose computer, I'll be eagerly waiting for them or someone else to create the next iPad. It's already gone too far that way, IMO—I like it as a slab of smart glass that can become, entirely, a whole bunch of different, separate, specific tools, not as yet another complex, generic, multi-tasking computer. In that respect, it's mostly been going downhill since iOS 6, IMO, as far as the OS interface and behavior.
- whimsicalism 6y ago
  Why can't it let you just choose which experience you want?
  - f6v 6y ago
    We tried to build a universal app for two sides of a job board once. The app offered different workflows depending on whether you're a job seeker or a recruiter. Man, managing that UX- and code-wise was a pain the ass. Imagine doing that for the whole OS.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      This is a common workflow? two views talking to the same backend.
  - intergalplan 6y ago
    I like it better if 100% of the software on the device operates under the same constraints, so the developer of some app that I really need/want can't decide "no, you need to be in desktop-alike mode for this to run, because I just don't feel like dealing with tablet mode". It's basically the same problem as allowing multiple app stores, in that it'd fragment the experience and leave me having to choose between "do what the developer of this app wanted, which isn't what I wanted" and "don't have the app". I prefer that everyone has to deliver software the same way, under the same constraints, for predictability and user control of their environment (that is, I want the device to work like a traditional tablet, period, so I prefer that developers have to treat it that way, as it results in the device always working the way I want it to, for all software that runs on it) And in fact, I can currently choose the experience I want if I decide I want a typical multitasking desktop—by putting down the iPad and going over to a Mac (or Linux, or Windows, or FreeBSD machine, or whatever). Or, to extend the "I like a tablet that becomes things, modally" way of thinking about it, by putting the iPad in Remote Desktop mode and connecting over VNC or SSH or RDP to a traditional desktop or server.
    - whimsicalism 6y ago
      As I wrote the above comment, I was thinking along a similar line of thought re: "no, you need to be in desktop-alike mode for this to run." I do agree that this is an issue, but I wonder how much of one. I feel like there is quite a bit of inertia behind iOS style "apps" right now that a sizable mass userbase will not use your service if it is a desktop-style interface, because that sort of interface is unfamiliar to them. Only for very niche apps would you be able to survive on desktop app alone. Many fo those niche uses would be geared towards power-users who are likely more used to a desktop environment.
  - drewzero1 6y ago
    I think that's what Windows 8 was going for, to be able to choose between a tablet experience and a desktop experience based on which app you use. The problem was that they pushed the app experience too hard without a clear option to choose between the modes. Win 10 has walked this back pretty well, but I still find myself using desktop apps 99% of the time (even when using the Surface as a tablet).
tyingq 6y ago
I don't know that it would have to be a full general-purpose computer. For the most part, if they found a way for Xcode to run on an iPad, I feel like MacOS would be (eventually, slowly) doomed.
- f6v 6y ago
  iPad is a "computer" for people who just browse internet, watch YouTube and play games. Bringing the whole macOS experience to iPad would be a distracting endeavour IMO. Yeah, it'd be dope for some people, but the number of those people is overestimated.
hnburnsy 6y ago
Remember the Apple ad with the little girl who replies... 'What's a computer?' The ad ended with the tag line... “Imagine what your computer could do if it was an iPad Pro”.
- FridayoLeary 6y ago
  disappointingly limited, it turns out.
smasher164 6y ago
If you look at it in the abstract, using a computer is equivalent to programming it (ad-hoc), whether the computation and memory live in your head, on a clipboard, or in some app. If the whole "low-code"/visual programming trend is any indication, we need to collectively raise the power of tools and narrow the gap between usage and programming. Apple should be trying to empower users with safe abstractions, not lock them down even more.

I'm still skeptical that Apple wants it to be a general-purpose computer.

by f6v 6y ago

I'm still skeptical that Apple wants it to be a general-purpose computer.

roody15 6y ago

It doesn’t. It is more a consumer console than personal computer IMO

intergalplan 6y ago

Personally, if they make it a general-purpose computer, I'll be eagerly waiting for them or someone else to create the next iPad. It's already gone too far that way, IMO—I like it as a slab of smart glass that can become, entirely, a whole bunch of different, separate, specific tools, not as yet another complex, generic, multi-tasking computer. In that respect, it's mostly been going downhill since iOS 6, IMO, as far as the OS interface and behavior.

whimsicalism 6y ago
Why can't it let you just choose which experience you want?
- f6v 6y ago
  We tried to build a universal app for two sides of a job board once. The app offered different workflows depending on whether you're a job seeker or a recruiter. Man, managing that UX- and code-wise was a pain the ass. Imagine doing that for the whole OS.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    This is a common workflow? two views talking to the same backend.
- intergalplan 6y ago
  I like it better if 100% of the software on the device operates under the same constraints, so the developer of some app that I really need/want can't decide "no, you need to be in desktop-alike mode for this to run, because I just don't feel like dealing with tablet mode". It's basically the same problem as allowing multiple app stores, in that it'd fragment the experience and leave me having to choose between "do what the developer of this app wanted, which isn't what I wanted" and "don't have the app". I prefer that everyone has to deliver software the same way, under the same constraints, for predictability and user control of their environment (that is, I want the device to work like a traditional tablet, period, so I prefer that developers have to treat it that way, as it results in the device always working the way I want it to, for all software that runs on it) And in fact, I can currently choose the experience I want if I decide I want a typical multitasking desktop—by putting down the iPad and going over to a Mac (or Linux, or Windows, or FreeBSD machine, or whatever). Or, to extend the "I like a tablet that becomes things, modally" way of thinking about it, by putting the iPad in Remote Desktop mode and connecting over VNC or SSH or RDP to a traditional desktop or server.
  - whimsicalism 6y ago
    As I wrote the above comment, I was thinking along a similar line of thought re: "no, you need to be in desktop-alike mode for this to run." I do agree that this is an issue, but I wonder how much of one. I feel like there is quite a bit of inertia behind iOS style "apps" right now that a sizable mass userbase will not use your service if it is a desktop-style interface, because that sort of interface is unfamiliar to them. Only for very niche apps would you be able to survive on desktop app alone. Many fo those niche uses would be geared towards power-users who are likely more used to a desktop environment.
- drewzero1 6y ago
  I think that's what Windows 8 was going for, to be able to choose between a tablet experience and a desktop experience based on which app you use. The problem was that they pushed the app experience too hard without a clear option to choose between the modes. Win 10 has walked this back pretty well, but I still find myself using desktop apps 99% of the time (even when using the Surface as a tablet).

tyingq 6y ago

I don't know that it would have to be a full general-purpose computer. For the most part, if they found a way for Xcode to run on an iPad, I feel like MacOS would be (eventually, slowly) doomed.

f6v 6y ago
iPad is a "computer" for people who just browse internet, watch YouTube and play games. Bringing the whole macOS experience to iPad would be a distracting endeavour IMO. Yeah, it'd be dope for some people, but the number of those people is overestimated.

hnburnsy 6y ago

Remember the Apple ad with the little girl who replies... 'What's a computer?' The ad ended with the tag line... “Imagine what your computer could do if it was an iPad Pro”.

FridayoLeary 6y ago
disappointingly limited, it turns out.

smasher164 6y ago

If you look at it in the abstract, using a computer is equivalent to programming it (ad-hoc), whether the computation and memory live in your head, on a clipboard, or in some app. If the whole "low-code"/visual programming trend is any indication, we need to collectively raise the power of tools and narrow the gap between usage and programming. Apple should be trying to empower users with safe abstractions, not lock them down even more.