4 ms·

> If they want a full time job, they need to elevate themselves This suggestion only makes sense until it doesn't. Suppose everyone actually took that advice.

by lhorie 6y ago

> If they want a full time job, they need to elevate themselves This suggestion only makes sense until it doesn't. Suppose everyone actually took that advice. Then you'd have an entire population of overqualified people who cannot find jobs that are appropriate to their skill level and who still have to take crappy jobs. Paradoxically, maybe even you are one of them. Then what? Now consider that this upleveling actually does happen for many people, and yet the issue of risk of financial ruin continues to exist for the bottom rungs in perpetuity. Also, the point about deserving feels a bit myopic. Does someone deserve to be so poor that their family ends up resorting to tax funded programs like unemployment benefits, or worse, they turn to stealing, landing in jail and imposing a $40k tax burden per head on the rest of the population? If the money flows from big corps to privileged highly paid workers pockets to the IRS to govt-run programs, why not just route the money directly to the less privileged so govt programs are less needed in the first place? The status quo is really not that different from Omelas[0] [0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Omelas https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Ones_Who_Walk_Away_from_Om...

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
Chris2048 6y ago
> Then you'd have an entire population of overqualified people who cannot find jobs Why would you? In the time it takes to train, those jobs could be created; if some of those workers become business owners, for example.
- lhorie 6y ago
  You still need someone to pick your potatoes in the farm for you. If everyone has white collar skills, then that means one of two things: 1) white collar jobs don't pay as much comparatively to blue collar (meaning your supermarket potatoes now cost $50 due to high labor costs because there's no supply of workers) 2) people with white collar skills cannot find white collar jobs and are forced to take low pay blue collar jobs so that they can put food on the table, while you can continue to enjoy $1 potatoes. The latter is actually how the world works now: there are people w/ master degrees doing Uber, actors working on starbucks, etc. One can argue that most adults are in fact overqualified for physical labor: they can read and write and do math, which are arguably "higher level" skills than what is required for those jobs (cf. farming in the feudal ages).
  - Chris2048 6y ago
    If there is a dire need for potato-picking manual labour, pay will increase, as will the price of potatoes, short-term at least, assuming the change is sudden and of immediate effect, which makes the scenario even more unrealistic. Realistically, rather than labourers becoming indefinitely well-paid, and potatoes indefinitely expensive, alternatives to manual labour will rapidly be developed, incentivised by high demand for potatoes and low supply of labour e.g. potato picking machines (which already exist btw). The sudden increased supply of automation and robotics engineers won't hurt either. > your supermarket potatoes now cost $50 due to high labor costs which is as meaningful as $1 potatoes since we don't know the value of a dollar in this hypothetical "everyone is a white collar worker" world. More likely the value applied to all jobs shift, and previously lucrative jobs are not so lucrative anymore; that said, this may not be zero sum, the average standard of living may also increase - but many humans derive their satisfaction relative to the average, a metric that can never satisfy everyone, a poor man in the west today may have better nutrition, health, welfare and SoL than a kind hundreds of years ago. > people with white collar skills cannot find white collar jobs This is what I asked - why do you think this is? I'm not convinced. > there are people w/ master degrees doing Uber master degrees, in what? If if need to be said: get an education in something useful, and paid well by the market. STEM is usually a good bet. > they can read and write and do math But how do those skill translate into something useful for someone else? And how does demand compare to supply?
    - lhorie 6y ago
      > This is what I asked - why do you think this is? I'm not convinced The simplest way to explain is to just look at basic math: if there are 3 doctor jobs and 4 doctors, one gets the short end of the stick. > master degrees, in what In STEM, most surprisingly, but also other careers that sound fairly reasonable. You'd think stuff like civil engineering or accounting would be fine careers, right? But somehow, Uber drivers have the craziest life stories...
      - Chris2048 6y ago
        I've yet to see a doctor unable to either be employed or self-employ.

by lhorie 6y ago

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

Chris2048 6y ago

> Then you'd have an entire population of overqualified people who cannot find jobs Why would you? In the time it takes to train, those jobs could be created; if some of those workers become business owners, for example.

lhorie 6y ago
You still need someone to pick your potatoes in the farm for you. If everyone has white collar skills, then that means one of two things: 1) white collar jobs don't pay as much comparatively to blue collar (meaning your supermarket potatoes now cost $50 due to high labor costs because there's no supply of workers) 2) people with white collar skills cannot find white collar jobs and are forced to take low pay blue collar jobs so that they can put food on the table, while you can continue to enjoy $1 potatoes. The latter is actually how the world works now: there are people w/ master degrees doing Uber, actors working on starbucks, etc. One can argue that most adults are in fact overqualified for physical labor: they can read and write and do math, which are arguably "higher level" skills than what is required for those jobs (cf. farming in the feudal ages).
- Chris2048 6y ago
  If there is a dire need for potato-picking manual labour, pay will increase, as will the price of potatoes, short-term at least, assuming the change is sudden and of immediate effect, which makes the scenario even more unrealistic. Realistically, rather than labourers becoming indefinitely well-paid, and potatoes indefinitely expensive, alternatives to manual labour will rapidly be developed, incentivised by high demand for potatoes and low supply of labour e.g. potato picking machines (which already exist btw). The sudden increased supply of automation and robotics engineers won't hurt either. > your supermarket potatoes now cost $50 due to high labor costs which is as meaningful as $1 potatoes since we don't know the value of a dollar in this hypothetical "everyone is a white collar worker" world. More likely the value applied to all jobs shift, and previously lucrative jobs are not so lucrative anymore; that said, this may not be zero sum, the average standard of living may also increase - but many humans derive their satisfaction relative to the average, a metric that can never satisfy everyone, a poor man in the west today may have better nutrition, health, welfare and SoL than a kind hundreds of years ago. > people with white collar skills cannot find white collar jobs This is what I asked - why do you think this is? I'm not convinced. > there are people w/ master degrees doing Uber master degrees, in what? If if need to be said: get an education in something useful, and paid well by the market. STEM is usually a good bet. > they can read and write and do math But how do those skill translate into something useful for someone else? And how does demand compare to supply?
  - lhorie 6y ago
    > This is what I asked - why do you think this is? I'm not convinced The simplest way to explain is to just look at basic math: if there are 3 doctor jobs and 4 doctors, one gets the short end of the stick. > master degrees, in what In STEM, most surprisingly, but also other careers that sound fairly reasonable. You'd think stuff like civil engineering or accounting would be fine careers, right? But somehow, Uber drivers have the craziest life stories...
    - Chris2048 6y ago
      I've yet to see a doctor unable to either be employed or self-employ.