6 ms·

I’m going to go ahead and say if you haven’t gotten onboard with USB C by now you’re behind. It’s been half a decade since the USB A port went away on Mac. I kn

I’m going to go ahead and say if you haven’t gotten onboard with USB C by now you’re behind. It’s been half a decade since the USB A port went away on Mac. I know everyone has their legacy peripherals they love but... it’s time to move on.

mort96 5y ago
They're not "legacy peripherals". Mice and keyboards are far from "legacy", and almost all of them come with USB A cables still. Having to add a flaky USB hub to your desktop just to plug in your keyboard is actually ridiculous. It makes sense on a laptop, but these desktops have _a lot_ of surface area on which they could put a few USB-A ports. EDIT: Though, Apple removing the USB-A ports from everything might be what the industry needs to push peripherals to use USB-C for everything? If that's the case, then that might be a win for everyone, except for people who buy these new iMacs.
- martinald 5y ago
  You can get USB A to USB C adaptors for like $1. They work totally fine.
  - deleted 5y ago
    [deleted]
- rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
  I don't think "most" mice and keyboards are USB-A: bluetooth peripherals eclipsed wired peripherals ages ago. Yes, most of the decent new ones charge via USB-C.
  - slantyyz 5y ago
    I have a recent vintage Logitech mouse (came out this year). The charging port on the mouse, is USB-C, but the charging cable it came with was still A to C. Same goes for the 2.4Ghz unified dongle it came with.
    - websites2323 5y ago
      The receiver being USBA is a definitely a miss on Logitech’s part. BT is spotty on my macs with these mice.
    - etqwzutewzu 5y ago
      Logitech MX Master 3 for Mac and MX Anywhere 3 for Mac have USB-C to USB-C charging.
      - slantyyz 5y ago
        I have the generic Graphite MX Anywhere 3
  - mort96 5y ago
    So, I was curious if you are correct and the market has changed a lot, or if I'm correct and most peripherals still use USB-A. So I checked out the website of a tech reseller, sorted their keyboards by most sold, and counted the technology used. Before I stopped counting, I found 8 wireless keyboards using bluetooth, 9 wireless keyboards using a USB-A receiver, and 10 wired keyboards using a USB-A cable. It seems like USB-A is still alive and well in the peripheral ecosystem. Here's a link to the search results page I used: https://www.komplett.no/category/10264/datautstyr/pc-tilbehoer/mus/tastatur?nlevel=10000%C2%A728004%C2%A710264%C2%A710267&nlevel=10000%C2%A728004%C2%A710264%C2%A711154&sort=OrderedTimes_bf%3ADESCENDING https://www.komplett.no/category/10264/datautstyr/pc-tilbeho... It's a website which is commonly used by gamers, so wired keyboards may be over-represented compared to the general population. But it clearly shows that actually, USB-A is still really commonly used in new peripherals sold today.
    - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
      Yeah, it should go without saying that gamers and people who code are in a different class: hobbyists. I'm one of them, and most of the people on this site are too. We love our periphs. I have a wireless (mech) keyboard and a wireless mouse that both charge via usb-C cables, though it is something I filtered by when I was shopping for them a year or so ago in anticipation of this happening. I think Apple (correctly) determined that these folks will tolerate whatever they put out, buy adapters to use their beloved special keyboard, etc. And for the ones who won't tolerate it: they're probably not buying Apple hardware anyway.
      - mort96 5y ago
        I mean, now your argument has changed from "most peripherals use bluetooth so it doesn't matter" to "most peripherals use USB-A, but many Apple users will nonetheless tolerate the lack of USB-A on their desktops". I can't really argue against that, and maybe it's correct. EDIT: Just to respond to the "gamers and people who code are in a different class" thing: I went to a different store which is more general, went through the most sold keyboards, and skipped all "gaming" keyboards (so everything from Razer, everything branded Logitech G, everything with RGB), and counted to 14 bluetooth keyboards and 19 keyboards which require USB-A (7 wired, 12 with the USB receiver dongle). People just use USB-A peripherals a whole lot. (Store URL: https://www.elkjop.no/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no_NO/-/NOK/ViewStandardCatalog-Browse?CategoryName=no-tastatur&CategoryDomainName=store-elkjop-ProductCatalog&SearchParameter=%26%40QueryTerm%3D*%26ContextCategoryUUID%3DL0qsGQWEi34AAAFq6gQO5bD1%26discontinued%3D0%26online%3D1&SortingAttribute=SoldQuantity-desc&select-sort-refine=SoldQuantity-desc https://www.elkjop.no/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no...)
- websites2323 5y ago
  All mac computers except the Mac Mini come with a keyboard and mouse. The Mac Mini 2 USB-A ports, which would be suitable for the keyboard and mouse with USB-A.
- fomine3 5y ago
  Astonishing fact: Logitech still doesn't release USB Type-C Unifying adapter.
  - hans-moleman 5y ago
    Pretty sure that the USB dongle was a solution to have the mice work on all computers because at the time, pretty much all desktops had no Bluetooth connectivity. The next step for them is going all in on Bluetooth (at least for the casual user products).
    - fomine3 5y ago
      Probably. I still prefer dongle over BT because it's more stable, 100% work on UEFI/BIOS screen. I wish they keep it.
progman32 5y ago
The cutting edge Valve Index sitting next to me connects via type A.
tzs 5y ago
Until there are readily available, not too expensive, hubs that (1) hook up to the computer via a USB-C to USB-C cable, and (2) have multiple USB-C ports that you can use to hook up USB-C devices via USB-C to USB-C cables, it is not time to move on.
- OkGoDoIt 5y ago
  Exactly! It’s crazy to me that more than 6 years into this USB-C journey, you still can’t buy a USB-C hub for under $100. Back in the day USB 2.0 hubs were under $50 within a couple years, and then practically free (literal giveaway swag) within 5 years.
cruano 5y ago
Do I really need to throw away my racing wheel just because it's USB A ? How about my Arduino ? Hell, my Apple Watch charger is USB A Plenty of devices don't benefit from an "improved version with USB C" and in a computer this size it shouldn't be a problem to include at least one
- lupire 5y ago
  $3 for a tiny adapter to put on your wheel or computer.
BitwiseFool 5y ago
I'm perfectly fine with getting on-board with USB-C but I don't design the peripherals. The only USB-C product I own is a charging cable to a wireless mouse and the host end is USB-A.
izacus 5y ago
Yep, we moved on. It's crazy just how much more pleasant it is to use my 13" Razer laptop, which is for all intents and purposes equivalent in built quality to my previous 13" MacBook Pro... except that the designers had an amazing idea to put 2 Thunderbolt USB-C ports and 2 USB-A ports on it. No. More. Frigging. Dongles. For anything - you can plug both modern USB-C docks AND keyboards and USB sticks easily. Crazy.
slantyyz 5y ago
While I'm technical enough to know what to buy (most of the time) as it relates to USB-C, I think it's still a confusing mess for non-techy consumers, who aren't reading the fine print on USB-C related product descriptions when buying stuff. A lot of USB-A to USB-C data cables sold on Amazon are still only USB 2.0 standard (480 mbps). Not all C to C cables can be used for high watt power delivery, etc. Some cables only charge. And then there's those USB-C and/or Thunderbolt docks whose video ports may or may not work depending on what your PC's capabilities are. I think the creators of USB-C should have come up with some type of lettering or numbering system to reduce the confusion. At least there would be a chart that "normals" could refer to in terms of whether they're buying the right cable.
tachyonbeam 5y ago
Well, this is supposed to be a professional desktop machine. I don't want to run my work machine off of wifi that could randomly disconnect in the middle of meetings though. I know I'm not the only one. They could have spent the 3 dollars per machine it would cost them to add an ethernet jack, but instead they're going to have you spend $20 on some adapter dongle. As for USB-A, there are tons of peripherals still in existence out there. Maybe you're fucking loaded and you don't care about just buying everything USB-C, but that's definitely not the case for everyone. Suppose I have a nice USB-A optical mouse and mechanical keyboard that I like for example, or a really nice $200 audio interface. I guess I need to buy yet more dongles, or throw them away and replace everything with USB-C peripherals because some 20yo on HN says that USB-A is legacy. Thanks Apple. You definitely value user experience above all else.
- reaperducer 5y ago
  Well, this is supposed to be a professional desktop machine. No, it's not. It's a consumer-grade machine. And clearly aimed at that market.
  - alwillis 5y ago
    Consumers don't need Wide color P3 displays or the ability to attach a $5000 6K display. Clearly this machine can do professional level tasks, as demonstrated during the keynote. I wrote about this further up in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26883718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26883718
- diroussel 5y ago
  The Ethernet port is included. It’s just on the power adapter rather than the back of the screen.
- alwillis 5y ago
  I know I'm not the only one. They could have spent the 3 dollars per machine it would cost them to add an ethernet jack It's too thin to support a standard RJ45 port in the back like previous Macs. macOS has supported Thunderbolt Ethernet/USB-A dongles for years if you want to go that route instead of using the Ethernet built-in to the power adapter.
spectre3d 5y ago
The newest M1 Mac Mini has “Two USB-A ports (up to 5Gb/s)“ included as standard. [1] Under "Connections and Expansion" [1] https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/ https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/
rchaud 5y ago
I'm writing this on my 2014 MBP that has: - 2x USB ports - 2x Thunderbolt ports - 1x HDMI "Half a decade" is not that long considering that the external mic I purchased in 2020 for WFH requires USB-A. Why on earth would I want to switch to newer models that require a dongle for everything?
arvinsim 5y ago
That's your wishful thinking talking. Most people are still on USB-A, especially those who are not tech savvy.

mort96 5y ago

They're not "legacy peripherals". Mice and keyboards are far from "legacy", and almost all of them come with USB A cables still. Having to add a flaky USB hub to your desktop just to plug in your keyboard is actually ridiculous. It makes sense on a laptop, but these desktops have _a lot_ of surface area on which they could put a few USB-A ports. EDIT: Though, Apple removing the USB-A ports from everything might be what the industry needs to push peripherals to use USB-C for everything? If that's the case, then that might be a win for everyone, except for people who buy these new iMacs.

martinald 5y ago
You can get USB A to USB C adaptors for like $1. They work totally fine.
- deleted 5y ago
  [deleted]
rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
I don't think "most" mice and keyboards are USB-A: bluetooth peripherals eclipsed wired peripherals ages ago. Yes, most of the decent new ones charge via USB-C.
- slantyyz 5y ago
  I have a recent vintage Logitech mouse (came out this year). The charging port on the mouse, is USB-C, but the charging cable it came with was still A to C. Same goes for the 2.4Ghz unified dongle it came with.
  - websites2323 5y ago
    The receiver being USBA is a definitely a miss on Logitech’s part. BT is spotty on my macs with these mice.
  - etqwzutewzu 5y ago
    Logitech MX Master 3 for Mac and MX Anywhere 3 for Mac have USB-C to USB-C charging.
    - slantyyz 5y ago
      I have the generic Graphite MX Anywhere 3
- mort96 5y ago
  So, I was curious if you are correct and the market has changed a lot, or if I'm correct and most peripherals still use USB-A. So I checked out the website of a tech reseller, sorted their keyboards by most sold, and counted the technology used. Before I stopped counting, I found 8 wireless keyboards using bluetooth, 9 wireless keyboards using a USB-A receiver, and 10 wired keyboards using a USB-A cable. It seems like USB-A is still alive and well in the peripheral ecosystem. Here's a link to the search results page I used: https://www.komplett.no/category/10264/datautstyr/pc-tilbehoer/mus/tastatur?nlevel=10000%C2%A728004%C2%A710264%C2%A710267&nlevel=10000%C2%A728004%C2%A710264%C2%A711154&sort=OrderedTimes_bf%3ADESCENDING https://www.komplett.no/category/10264/datautstyr/pc-tilbeho... It's a website which is commonly used by gamers, so wired keyboards may be over-represented compared to the general population. But it clearly shows that actually, USB-A is still really commonly used in new peripherals sold today.
  - rrrrrrrrrrrryan 5y ago
    Yeah, it should go without saying that gamers and people who code are in a different class: hobbyists. I'm one of them, and most of the people on this site are too. We love our periphs. I have a wireless (mech) keyboard and a wireless mouse that both charge via usb-C cables, though it is something I filtered by when I was shopping for them a year or so ago in anticipation of this happening. I think Apple (correctly) determined that these folks will tolerate whatever they put out, buy adapters to use their beloved special keyboard, etc. And for the ones who won't tolerate it: they're probably not buying Apple hardware anyway.
    - mort96 5y ago
      I mean, now your argument has changed from "most peripherals use bluetooth so it doesn't matter" to "most peripherals use USB-A, but many Apple users will nonetheless tolerate the lack of USB-A on their desktops". I can't really argue against that, and maybe it's correct. EDIT: Just to respond to the "gamers and people who code are in a different class" thing: I went to a different store which is more general, went through the most sold keyboards, and skipped all "gaming" keyboards (so everything from Razer, everything branded Logitech G, everything with RGB), and counted to 14 bluetooth keyboards and 19 keyboards which require USB-A (7 wired, 12 with the USB receiver dongle). People just use USB-A peripherals a whole lot. (Store URL: https://www.elkjop.no/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no_NO/-/NOK/ViewStandardCatalog-Browse?CategoryName=no-tastatur&CategoryDomainName=store-elkjop-ProductCatalog&SearchParameter=%26%40QueryTerm%3D*%26ContextCategoryUUID%3DL0qsGQWEi34AAAFq6gQO5bD1%26discontinued%3D0%26online%3D1&SortingAttribute=SoldQuantity-desc&select-sort-refine=SoldQuantity-desc https://www.elkjop.no/INTERSHOP/web/WFS/store-elkjop-Site/no...)
websites2323 5y ago
All mac computers except the Mac Mini come with a keyboard and mouse. The Mac Mini 2 USB-A ports, which would be suitable for the keyboard and mouse with USB-A.
fomine3 5y ago
Astonishing fact: Logitech still doesn't release USB Type-C Unifying adapter.
- hans-moleman 5y ago
  Pretty sure that the USB dongle was a solution to have the mice work on all computers because at the time, pretty much all desktops had no Bluetooth connectivity. The next step for them is going all in on Bluetooth (at least for the casual user products).
  - fomine3 5y ago
    Probably. I still prefer dongle over BT because it's more stable, 100% work on UEFI/BIOS screen. I wish they keep it.

progman32 5y ago

The cutting edge Valve Index sitting next to me connects via type A.

tzs 5y ago

Until there are readily available, not too expensive, hubs that (1) hook up to the computer via a USB-C to USB-C cable, and (2) have multiple USB-C ports that you can use to hook up USB-C devices via USB-C to USB-C cables, it is not time to move on.

OkGoDoIt 5y ago
Exactly! It’s crazy to me that more than 6 years into this USB-C journey, you still can’t buy a USB-C hub for under $100. Back in the day USB 2.0 hubs were under $50 within a couple years, and then practically free (literal giveaway swag) within 5 years.

cruano 5y ago

Do I really need to throw away my racing wheel just because it's USB A ? How about my Arduino ? Hell, my Apple Watch charger is USB A Plenty of devices don't benefit from an "improved version with USB C" and in a computer this size it shouldn't be a problem to include at least one

lupire 5y ago
$3 for a tiny adapter to put on your wheel or computer.

BitwiseFool 5y ago

I'm perfectly fine with getting on-board with USB-C but I don't design the peripherals. The only USB-C product I own is a charging cable to a wireless mouse and the host end is USB-A.

izacus 5y ago

Yep, we moved on. It's crazy just how much more pleasant it is to use my 13" Razer laptop, which is for all intents and purposes equivalent in built quality to my previous 13" MacBook Pro... except that the designers had an amazing idea to put 2 Thunderbolt USB-C ports and 2 USB-A ports on it. No. More. Frigging. Dongles. For anything - you can plug both modern USB-C docks AND keyboards and USB sticks easily. Crazy.

slantyyz 5y ago

While I'm technical enough to know what to buy (most of the time) as it relates to USB-C, I think it's still a confusing mess for non-techy consumers, who aren't reading the fine print on USB-C related product descriptions when buying stuff. A lot of USB-A to USB-C data cables sold on Amazon are still only USB 2.0 standard (480 mbps). Not all C to C cables can be used for high watt power delivery, etc. Some cables only charge. And then there's those USB-C and/or Thunderbolt docks whose video ports may or may not work depending on what your PC's capabilities are. I think the creators of USB-C should have come up with some type of lettering or numbering system to reduce the confusion. At least there would be a chart that "normals" could refer to in terms of whether they're buying the right cable.

tachyonbeam 5y ago

Well, this is supposed to be a professional desktop machine. I don't want to run my work machine off of wifi that could randomly disconnect in the middle of meetings though. I know I'm not the only one. They could have spent the 3 dollars per machine it would cost them to add an ethernet jack, but instead they're going to have you spend $20 on some adapter dongle. As for USB-A, there are tons of peripherals still in existence out there. Maybe you're fucking loaded and you don't care about just buying everything USB-C, but that's definitely not the case for everyone. Suppose I have a nice USB-A optical mouse and mechanical keyboard that I like for example, or a really nice $200 audio interface. I guess I need to buy yet more dongles, or throw them away and replace everything with USB-C peripherals because some 20yo on HN says that USB-A is legacy. Thanks Apple. You definitely value user experience above all else.

reaperducer 5y ago
Well, this is supposed to be a professional desktop machine. No, it's not. It's a consumer-grade machine. And clearly aimed at that market.
- alwillis 5y ago
  Consumers don't need Wide color P3 displays or the ability to attach a $5000 6K display. Clearly this machine can do professional level tasks, as demonstrated during the keynote. I wrote about this further up in this thread: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26883718 https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=26883718
diroussel 5y ago
The Ethernet port is included. It’s just on the power adapter rather than the back of the screen.
alwillis 5y ago
I know I'm not the only one. They could have spent the 3 dollars per machine it would cost them to add an ethernet jack It's too thin to support a standard RJ45 port in the back like previous Macs. macOS has supported Thunderbolt Ethernet/USB-A dongles for years if you want to go that route instead of using the Ethernet built-in to the power adapter.

spectre3d 5y ago

The newest M1 Mac Mini has “Two USB-A ports (up to 5Gb/s)“ included as standard. [1] Under "Connections and Expansion" [1] https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/ https://www.apple.com/mac-mini/specs/

rchaud 5y ago

I'm writing this on my 2014 MBP that has: - 2x USB ports - 2x Thunderbolt ports - 1x HDMI "Half a decade" is not that long considering that the external mic I purchased in 2020 for WFH requires USB-A. Why on earth would I want to switch to newer models that require a dongle for everything?

arvinsim 5y ago

That's your wishful thinking talking. Most people are still on USB-A, especially those who are not tech savvy.