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I’m guessing because the vast majority of the market with a 4K Apple TV is not watching in stereo, but in surround with something like Dolby Atmos. Edit: For t

I’m guessing because the vast majority of the market with a 4K Apple TV is not watching in stereo, but in surround with something like Dolby Atmos. Edit: For those unfamiliar, spatial audio is a post processing effect that attempts to simulate surround, whereas most home theaters are going to be watching material that has discreet location and channel data, meaning a much more realistic surround stage.

crazygringo 6y ago
A lot of people watch TV/movies at night with headphones instead of speakers, in order not to wake up the kids, grandparents, someone who works early, etc. Especially when you want to fully experience those big loud action sequences without making the house actually rumble. This is for people when they aren't using their speakers at all. Edit in response to your edit: I think you may be misunderstanding Apple's spatial audio feature. It's not simulating surround out of stereo audio, it's simulating a sound stage out of the discreet location and channel data you're talking about. It requires surround sound input, it won't operate on stereo input. The surround stage is shockingly realistic if you try it.
- crazydoggers 6y ago
  It’s still post processing to create a sound stage to a stereo signal. Nothing wrong with that, but for instance if I’m watching a movie on an iPhone or something, I’m assuming I can’t get the true audio experience of the film. When it’s a movie I really am into, then I’m going to watch it in full surround, with discreet speakers. 7.1 to stereo headphones is always a compromise whether it’s Apple spatial audio, or Dolby Atmos for Headphones. And absolutely I get your point, that it’s great for watching it at night. I’m just guessing their market for 4K Apple TV is more home theater people. Usually when I’m watching at night with headphones I’ll be on the iPad. Again it’s not that I don’t see the use case, I just wouldn’t call it “baffling” since the market is a little different.
  - crazygringo 6y ago
    > I’m just guessing their market for 4K Apple TV is more home theater people. Nope, it's just average people with TV's in their living rooms. Apple TV (even the 4K version) is just an average consumer product. And at least for non-tech people I know who have families, watching Apple TV at night with Airpods is super common.
    - crazydoggers 6y ago
      I’m not sure about that. The average person uses the TV’s built in software and streaming features for the most part. According to this analysis AppleTV is a pretty niche product especially given its price point. https://9to5mac.com/2020/09/02/apple-tv-market-share-report/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/09/02/apple-tv-market-share-report/ I haven’t done the research, but I’m guessing Apple has. And my guess is that the market share using AirPods on iOS vastly outstrips those who use it on AppleTV. Again I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be a nice feature; but I just wouldn’t say it’s baffling. Apple is a fairly smart company... I’m sure they did some sort of cost benefit analysis and decided against it.
  - ricardobeat 6y ago
    > It’s still post processing to create a sound stage to a stereo signal Your ears are a 'stereo signal' and they work fine for recognizing the sound stage coming out of a 7.1 system. The Airpods are just presenting the same audio information directly to your ears. Besides, there is a massive difference between Dolby for headphones and spatial audio - standard surround headphones will not give you a fixed sound stage as you move your head. I think you're underestimating the effect, if you haven't tried them.
antiterra 6y ago
Even 7.1 speakers simulate input when it comes to positional surround like Dolby Atmos, albeit without the need to do HRTF wizardry/gimmicks. Plus, the distinguishing feature of the Apple spatial audio implementation is that it has head tracking so that locations correspond to the listening position even when you turn your head. (I think there are Audeze headsets that can do a version of this with PC.)
- crazydoggers 6y ago
  My speakers accomplish the same feat by being separated from my head :)
fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago
Of the households I’ve visited with Apple TV, I’d estimate half have surround (and that’s out of a mostly techy set of people). My impression is that many customers are not interested in setting up a receiver with a dozen wires plugged into it, and soundbars are a growing segment of the market. They “just work”.
coryking 6y ago
> I’m guessing because the vast majority of the market with a 4K Apple TV is not watching in stereo, but in surround with something like Dolby Atmos I bet a chunk of money it is the exact opposite. I bet for the majority of the market the fanciest thing they have is a soundbar and maybe a subwoofer. I honestly think the "home theater" market is pretty niche. It requires living conditions that most people simply don't have. You gotta have the right room shape for starters. Virtually every house I visit doesn't have a room that is easy to set surround sound up in. I mean for Atmos you specifically need speakers placed above the listener. Not to mention a bunch of other speakers everywhere. I dunno... almost nobody is living an a place amenable to such things. And even if they are, they need to get consent from their significant other to pull it off. So yeah. I bet maybe 5% of the market has Atmos or any kind of surround sound. 15% tops.

crazygringo 6y ago

A lot of people watch TV/movies at night with headphones instead of speakers, in order not to wake up the kids, grandparents, someone who works early, etc. Especially when you want to fully experience those big loud action sequences without making the house actually rumble. This is for people when they aren't using their speakers at all. Edit in response to your edit: I think you may be misunderstanding Apple's spatial audio feature. It's not simulating surround out of stereo audio, it's simulating a sound stage out of the discreet location and channel data you're talking about. It requires surround sound input, it won't operate on stereo input. The surround stage is shockingly realistic if you try it.

crazydoggers 6y ago
It’s still post processing to create a sound stage to a stereo signal. Nothing wrong with that, but for instance if I’m watching a movie on an iPhone or something, I’m assuming I can’t get the true audio experience of the film. When it’s a movie I really am into, then I’m going to watch it in full surround, with discreet speakers. 7.1 to stereo headphones is always a compromise whether it’s Apple spatial audio, or Dolby Atmos for Headphones. And absolutely I get your point, that it’s great for watching it at night. I’m just guessing their market for 4K Apple TV is more home theater people. Usually when I’m watching at night with headphones I’ll be on the iPad. Again it’s not that I don’t see the use case, I just wouldn’t call it “baffling” since the market is a little different.
- crazygringo 6y ago
  > I’m just guessing their market for 4K Apple TV is more home theater people. Nope, it's just average people with TV's in their living rooms. Apple TV (even the 4K version) is just an average consumer product. And at least for non-tech people I know who have families, watching Apple TV at night with Airpods is super common.
  - crazydoggers 6y ago
    I’m not sure about that. The average person uses the TV’s built in software and streaming features for the most part. According to this analysis AppleTV is a pretty niche product especially given its price point. https://9to5mac.com/2020/09/02/apple-tv-market-share-report/ https://9to5mac.com/2020/09/02/apple-tv-market-share-report/ I haven’t done the research, but I’m guessing Apple has. And my guess is that the market share using AirPods on iOS vastly outstrips those who use it on AppleTV. Again I’m not saying that it wouldn’t be a nice feature; but I just wouldn’t say it’s baffling. Apple is a fairly smart company... I’m sure they did some sort of cost benefit analysis and decided against it.
- ricardobeat 6y ago
  > It’s still post processing to create a sound stage to a stereo signal Your ears are a 'stereo signal' and they work fine for recognizing the sound stage coming out of a 7.1 system. The Airpods are just presenting the same audio information directly to your ears. Besides, there is a massive difference between Dolby for headphones and spatial audio - standard surround headphones will not give you a fixed sound stage as you move your head. I think you're underestimating the effect, if you haven't tried them.

antiterra 6y ago

Even 7.1 speakers simulate input when it comes to positional surround like Dolby Atmos, albeit without the need to do HRTF wizardry/gimmicks. Plus, the distinguishing feature of the Apple spatial audio implementation is that it has head tracking so that locations correspond to the listening position even when you turn your head. (I think there are Audeze headsets that can do a version of this with PC.)

crazydoggers 6y ago
My speakers accomplish the same feat by being separated from my head :)

fshbbdssbbgdd 6y ago

Of the households I’ve visited with Apple TV, I’d estimate half have surround (and that’s out of a mostly techy set of people). My impression is that many customers are not interested in setting up a receiver with a dozen wires plugged into it, and soundbars are a growing segment of the market. They “just work”.

coryking 6y ago

> I’m guessing because the vast majority of the market with a 4K Apple TV is not watching in stereo, but in surround with something like Dolby Atmos I bet a chunk of money it is the exact opposite. I bet for the majority of the market the fanciest thing they have is a soundbar and maybe a subwoofer. I honestly think the "home theater" market is pretty niche. It requires living conditions that most people simply don't have. You gotta have the right room shape for starters. Virtually every house I visit doesn't have a room that is easy to set surround sound up in. I mean for Atmos you specifically need speakers placed above the listener. Not to mention a bunch of other speakers everywhere. I dunno... almost nobody is living an a place amenable to such things. And even if they are, they need to get consent from their significant other to pull it off. So yeah. I bet maybe 5% of the market has Atmos or any kind of surround sound. 15% tops.