4 ms·

Herd immunity exists when enough people are incapable of re-transmitting a disease that the R number is below 1, even when we're back to a normal way of living.

Herd immunity exists when enough people are incapable of re-transmitting a disease that the R number is below 1, even when we're back to a normal way of living. It may be that the vaccines will be incapable of giving us herd immunity, but they may allow us to keep the R number below 1 with much less extreme social distancing and lockdown procedures. Without the vaccines, the only way to get rid of this pandemic is through severe economy-damaging lockdowns and liberty-encroaching contact tracing and quarantining. If we can achieve the same thing with vaccines plus just having to wear a mask when near other people, then I would say that vaccination would still be a moral obligation, even though we haven't achieved herd immunity.

what_happa_god 6y ago
That is certainly not the only way. - Immediately end all lockdowns, mask mandates and capacity restrictions. All those aged 70 and above will have the option to stay in quarantine. - Pass legislation to make Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin available over the counter like they are in many foreign countries. - Have the WHO, CDC, NIH and relevant health bodies endorse Zinc and Vitamin D while pledging to fund studies to further prove its efficacy. But no, we get ignore all the proof and hide in your homes until everyone can be vaccinated. Absolute lunacy.
- outworlder 6y ago
  > - Pass legislation to make Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin available over the counter like they are in many foreign countries. Oh, like Brazil does?! It's working so well over there, is it not. If you don't have malaria, lupus, lice, worms or similar, those medications do NOTHING. It's a virus. Vitamin D is effective if you are deficient. If you have normal levels that too does NOTHING.
  - what_happa_god 6y ago
    You mean like India? Check out those COVID numbers and let me know what you find ;) Indeed it is a virus, and they are used for Malaria. If using the combination of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc and Azythromicin early in disease progression actually works then... who cares? I mean really. It could work on placebo for all I care. People are dying, you think they will refuse a proven treatment that happens to be a anti-malarial versus an anti-viral? Regarding people being deficient in Vitamin D, that's uh... literally everyone. I think the only people with normal levels are native tribes that still live outdoors. Check out any study of vitamin D in chronically ill people and see how many have normal levels. These are the same people most susceptible to dying from COVID. Isn't being Vitamin D deficient the most indicative metric of COVID morbidity?
    - outworlder 6y ago
      That medication cocktail is inefficient at best, and causes liver damage. > Isn't being Vitamin D deficient the most indicative metric of COVID morbidity It is one metric. Depends on how deficient you are too.
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Immediately end all lockdowns, mask mandates and capacity restrictions. All those aged 70 and above will have the option to stay in quarantine Aside from the stupidity of the first half, is the last sentence to be taken to mean that everyone under 70 will be dragged forcibly out of their homes and exposed involuntarily? If not, how else are we to understand that only a narrow group will have the “option” of “quarantine”? > Pass legislation to make Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin available over the counter like they are in many foreign countries. That’s stupid. Why would we make things worse by implicitly endorsing ineffective treatments? We’ve actually come a long way in effective medical interventions for COVID; making those more readily available (though OTC isn’t the right route, even there) makes sense. > But no, we get ignore all the proof and hide in your homes until everyone can be vaccinated. Almost nowhere has a policy that could even hyperbolicly be described by any sane person as “hide in your homes”, most places are gradually (some radically, even recklessly) reopening (and many adopting the first part of your first recommendation.) Even the many of the most restrictive places have generally reopened or are on short timetable to, despite retaining mask mandates and distancing/capacity restrictions for many activities.
  - what_happa_god 6y ago
    Please stop spreading misinformation here. There other alternatives than blindly swallowing and echoing talking points from the fear spreading media, authoritarian politicians and profit hungry pharmaceutical corporations. Here are two links to begin your journey on researching for yourself the scientific proof of efficacy for those treatments. https://c19hcq.com/ https://c19hcq.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/ Warning, you will have to use critical thinking a bit when reviewing the studies. Now thinking for yourself isn't for everyone, sometimes people prefer worshipping corrupt to the core institutions like government and media. Hoping you are able to see the light!
anoncake 6y ago
No, not at all. Lockdowns, quarantining and other human rights violations don't help us get rid of the pandemic, they prolong it. To end the pandemic faster, more people need to get exposed to the virus.
- outworlder 6y ago
  Please take this rhetoric elsewhere. No human rights are being violated. We are trying to protect people and buying time until all can be immunized (or, if vaccines didn't exist, allowing health care facilities to handle the load). We KNOW containment measures work (Ebola, SARS). If you expose more people to a virus, you risk making the pandemic much worse. Or deadly. Viruses mutate. Every new person exposed is a potential laboratory.
  - anoncake 6y ago
    Mutating viruses tend to get less deadly, not more. Killing its host does not benefit it. Of course containment measures work -- for keeping 80 year olds (and few other people) alive for a little bit longer at the expense of everyone else.
  - call_me_dana 6y ago
    You can contract covid, have it mutate and also spread it to others even if you’ve been vaccinated. There’s supposedly less of a chance to do this if you’re vaccinated but with for profit corporations funding most of the science it should all be taken with a grain of salt.
- adenner 6y ago
  While yes, that is one possible way to reach herd immunity. At what human cost?
  - anoncake 6y ago
    Not low, but still lower than that of lockdowns and quarantines, closed schools, etc.
McScroogy 6y ago
Strange, the flu disappears every year without any specific counter measures at all. I think citations are needed to prove Covid-19 would only go away with vaccinations and lockdowns.

what_happa_god 6y ago

That is certainly not the only way. - Immediately end all lockdowns, mask mandates and capacity restrictions. All those aged 70 and above will have the option to stay in quarantine. - Pass legislation to make Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin available over the counter like they are in many foreign countries. - Have the WHO, CDC, NIH and relevant health bodies endorse Zinc and Vitamin D while pledging to fund studies to further prove its efficacy. But no, we get ignore all the proof and hide in your homes until everyone can be vaccinated. Absolute lunacy.

outworlder 6y ago
> - Pass legislation to make Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin available over the counter like they are in many foreign countries. Oh, like Brazil does?! It's working so well over there, is it not. If you don't have malaria, lupus, lice, worms or similar, those medications do NOTHING. It's a virus. Vitamin D is effective if you are deficient. If you have normal levels that too does NOTHING.
- what_happa_god 6y ago
  You mean like India? Check out those COVID numbers and let me know what you find ;) Indeed it is a virus, and they are used for Malaria. If using the combination of Hydroxychloroquine, Zinc and Azythromicin early in disease progression actually works then... who cares? I mean really. It could work on placebo for all I care. People are dying, you think they will refuse a proven treatment that happens to be a anti-malarial versus an anti-viral? Regarding people being deficient in Vitamin D, that's uh... literally everyone. I think the only people with normal levels are native tribes that still live outdoors. Check out any study of vitamin D in chronically ill people and see how many have normal levels. These are the same people most susceptible to dying from COVID. Isn't being Vitamin D deficient the most indicative metric of COVID morbidity?
  - outworlder 6y ago
    That medication cocktail is inefficient at best, and causes liver damage. > Isn't being Vitamin D deficient the most indicative metric of COVID morbidity It is one metric. Depends on how deficient you are too.
dragonwriter 6y ago
> Immediately end all lockdowns, mask mandates and capacity restrictions. All those aged 70 and above will have the option to stay in quarantine Aside from the stupidity of the first half, is the last sentence to be taken to mean that everyone under 70 will be dragged forcibly out of their homes and exposed involuntarily? If not, how else are we to understand that only a narrow group will have the “option” of “quarantine”? > Pass legislation to make Hydroxychloroquine and Ivermectin available over the counter like they are in many foreign countries. That’s stupid. Why would we make things worse by implicitly endorsing ineffective treatments? We’ve actually come a long way in effective medical interventions for COVID; making those more readily available (though OTC isn’t the right route, even there) makes sense. > But no, we get ignore all the proof and hide in your homes until everyone can be vaccinated. Almost nowhere has a policy that could even hyperbolicly be described by any sane person as “hide in your homes”, most places are gradually (some radically, even recklessly) reopening (and many adopting the first part of your first recommendation.) Even the many of the most restrictive places have generally reopened or are on short timetable to, despite retaining mask mandates and distancing/capacity restrictions for many activities.
- what_happa_god 6y ago
  Please stop spreading misinformation here. There other alternatives than blindly swallowing and echoing talking points from the fear spreading media, authoritarian politicians and profit hungry pharmaceutical corporations. Here are two links to begin your journey on researching for yourself the scientific proof of efficacy for those treatments. https://c19hcq.com/ https://c19hcq.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/ https://c19ivermectin.com/ Warning, you will have to use critical thinking a bit when reviewing the studies. Now thinking for yourself isn't for everyone, sometimes people prefer worshipping corrupt to the core institutions like government and media. Hoping you are able to see the light!

anoncake 6y ago

No, not at all. Lockdowns, quarantining and other human rights violations don't help us get rid of the pandemic, they prolong it. To end the pandemic faster, more people need to get exposed to the virus.

outworlder 6y ago
Please take this rhetoric elsewhere. No human rights are being violated. We are trying to protect people and buying time until all can be immunized (or, if vaccines didn't exist, allowing health care facilities to handle the load). We KNOW containment measures work (Ebola, SARS). If you expose more people to a virus, you risk making the pandemic much worse. Or deadly. Viruses mutate. Every new person exposed is a potential laboratory.
- anoncake 6y ago
  Mutating viruses tend to get less deadly, not more. Killing its host does not benefit it. Of course containment measures work -- for keeping 80 year olds (and few other people) alive for a little bit longer at the expense of everyone else.
- call_me_dana 6y ago
  You can contract covid, have it mutate and also spread it to others even if you’ve been vaccinated. There’s supposedly less of a chance to do this if you’re vaccinated but with for profit corporations funding most of the science it should all be taken with a grain of salt.
adenner 6y ago
While yes, that is one possible way to reach herd immunity. At what human cost?
- anoncake 6y ago
  Not low, but still lower than that of lockdowns and quarantines, closed schools, etc.

McScroogy 6y ago

Strange, the flu disappears every year without any specific counter measures at all. I think citations are needed to prove Covid-19 would only go away with vaccinations and lockdowns.