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Echoprint: Open-source music fingerprinting
- denimboy 15y agoI think the fingerprinting part is similar to pHash: http://www.phash.org/ http://www.phash.org/ but echoprint is more focused on music and they are building a database of fingerprints. I think pHash also has functions for fingerprinting music but might not be as precise since pHash is not strictly focused on music.
- brianwhitman 15y agoif you have any questions, let me know. we're very excited about this!
- OoTheNigerian 15y agoAwesome stuff. We are working on something that will benefit both parties (us and you guys) immensely. Is there a way to contact you? No info on your HN profile
- brianwhitman 15y agoif it's echoprint related, write echoprint@echonest.com -- otherwise contact@echonest.com (i'm brian@echonest.com but i doubt you want to write just me)
- jbk 15y agoWhere do we go and ask questions for setting up a mirror for us (VLC/VideoLAN)? Is there an IRC channel?
- brianwhitman 15y agothere's a google group-- that's probably the easiest for now. you can pester alastairp on the musicbrainz IRC channel too (he's our resident musicbrainz/EN liaison)
- samps 15y agoWhat's the relationship (if any) or distinction between Echoprint and Chromaprint/Acoustid? http://acoustid.org/ http://acoustid.org/
- brianwhitman 15y agoNo relationship. Obviously the intent is the same. Distinction: we handle small pieces of audio from anywhere in the song (20s), ours works "over the air" via microphone, we have a huge database via our content partners.
- Aissen 15y agoAbout your data dumps: you're about to get hammered, so please share them in torrent! This would be much better for the thousands of people wanting to bootstrap. Also, I understand json is very easy to use, etc. But those big dumps cry for a binary format. Or at least add zlib/lzma compression so people don't waste bandwidth on uuencoded binary data in json.
- brianwhitman 15y agothe dumps are in a format that other code understands (fastingest.py) The code data is compressed using zlib (and then base64'd.) It's all on s3-- in our experience, big data dumps like this get relatively little traffic after the original hype dies down and a torrent doesn't make sense. We're pretty sure amazon can handle the load :)
- JonnieCache 15y agoS3 has bittorrent support built in, it's trivial to enable. But you probably knew that.
- osdf 15y agoI'm curious about the hashing algorithm. I read about the planned whitepaper, but some preliminary info would be cool (e.g refs to academic papers that you build on).
- brianwhitman 15y agoit is similar to our closed source FP ENMFP, which you can read about here: http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.185.699 http://citeseerx.ist.psu.edu/viewdoc/summary?doi=10.1.1.185.... The codegen is very different (instead of relying on echo nest chroma, it does its own onset detection) but the back end side is almost the same.
- megamark16 15y agoThis is really amazing, and I can't wait to see all of the possibilities it opens up now that people can create their own databases. I'm tempted to set up an app to fingerprint and dedupe all of the music spread out throughout the network here at work.
- VMG 15y agoThis. Also proper tagging for once.
- jokermatt999 15y agoI highly recommend MusicBrainz Picard for autotagging. I went through tagging somewhere around 70 gigs of music with it, and the entire experience was rather painless. It will also rename and organize the files for you as a bonus. It looks up the data (as it should be), so you rarely will have to enter anything yourself. It sometimes helps to add data for 1 track for horribly mistagged stuff, but after that you can usually drag and drop the rest of the album.
- 18pfsmt 15y agoFor others, like myself, that are unfamiliar, yet very interested. MusicBrainz[1] is written in python, distributed under the GPL, and I will be trying it ASAP. [1]https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/MusicBrainz_Picard https://secure.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/wiki/MusicBrainz_P...
- andrewcooke 15y agoMusicBrainz is written in Perl (and SQL). MB Picard is Python. MB is a database and associated server. MB Picard is a client. MB is a bit of a monster. If you're tagging a lot of music you may want to install it locally. My experience with this is documented at http://acooke.org/cute/Installing3.html http://acooke.org/cute/Installing3.html Personally, I was not too impressed with MB itself - ended up using LastFM's API instead. But this was for generating playlists, not tagging.
- caf 15y agoWhy aren't the fingerprints in the database covered by the recording copyright on the song that they were derived from?
- starwed 15y agoBecause it's less like a copy, and more like a name? In any case, even if this was technically a copy, I can't imagine this possibly failing the fair use test.
- JonnieCache 15y agoIf the fingerprint data of a track is covered then by that logic its SHA1 hash etc. would also be covered, and I can't see that line of argument going anywhere.
- hammock 15y agoOnly if you could prove that there are no collisions, right?
- JonnieCache 15y agoMy thinking was that while the fingerprint is derived from the music, it contains no audio data and there is no way to go back from the fingerprint to any representation of the recorded work. Much like a cryptographic hash. All the fingerprint comprises is a bunch of abstract statistical data about the music, its not qualitatively different from the output of say, a visualisation algorithm in a music player. Just much more useful. But then again, copyright law makes no fucking sense, so who knows.
- roel_v 15y agoMaybe they are, to the best of my knowledge there's no definite answer that they aren't. I find it unintuitive but I do think that rationally there's a case to be made that they are, in fact, 'derived works'.
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- highace 15y agoWoah. This is going to be massive. The amount of things that could potentially be built on top of this is scaring me.
- chl 15y agoGiven how threat-, or, let's say, notification-happy Landmark was just a while ago [1], does anyone have an idea regarding the patent situation? Is this implementation different enough to be considered (reasonably) "safe"? [1] http://www.redcode.nl/blog/2010/07/patent-infringement/ http://www.redcode.nl/blog/2010/07/patent-infringement/
- brianwhitman 15y agoWe invented everything about Echoprint from scratch, working with some awesome scientists and audio guys. I'm not a lawyer and won't comment on legal stuff here though.
- speckledjim 15y agoFWIW, inventing something from scratch, as far as I understand things, will only save you from copyrighted code etc. It won't save you from overly general, and trivial patents. Good luck though :/
- dgreensp 15y agoExactly. Be prepared to be bullied by Shazam -- at least, that's what happened the last time someone posted audio fingerprinting code online. And inventing something yourself doesn't save you from patents. I'll be watching from the sidelines to see how this plays out.
- chl 15y agoI seriously hope this is good enough even for the lawyerly folks out there. It's probably the biggest thing to happen in this space since the release of the iPhone version of Shazam!
- natch 15y agoWho uses Shazam anymore? SoundHound is way ahead in recognition capability, especially in noisy environments.
- deleted 15y ago[deleted]
- JonnieCache 15y agoEchonest are some cool people. Their earlier APIs enabled the illustrious although sadly now defunct http://www.donkdj.com http://www.donkdj.com which was done by a classmate of mine as a project for a Generative Creativity course we did at uni. Looks like their research has taken them a lot further!
- paisible 15y agoHoly balls you guys are awesome for releasing this.
- brianwhitman 15y agofor more on the whys, here is the EN blog post: http://blog.echonest.com/post/6824753703/announcing-echoprint http://blog.echonest.com/post/6824753703/announcing-echoprin...
- paulnelligan 15y agoHow is this different from Shazam?
- yesbabyyes 15y agohttp://www.shazam.com/tc http://www.shazam.com/tc
- Stuk 15y agoBecause it's open source.
- jbrennan 15y agoLooks incredible! One note though, the page seems to partially break for me in Safari on the Mac (the sidebar overlaps onto the content as I scroll horizontally). But the tech looks incredible. Good work for releasing this!
- brianwhitman 15y agooops! as you can tell, we're pretty good with music data and not so much on the web site design. i'll try to fix it :)
- natch 15y agoI'd love to see a project where the data is MIT licensed too, not just the code.
- a3_nm 15y agoI'm a bit confused by the database license. Why do you want people to contribute additional data specifically back to you, rather than requiring them to release it under a compatible license which would allow you to incorporate it if you wish? This is substantially different from usual copyleft licenses. As an example, notice that Wikipedia does not require people to send modified articles back to the Wikimedia Foundation, or to allow them to use the data as they see fit (this is clause D. 3. d. in your license). They just require people to contribute under a copyleft license, and they can thus incorporate derivative versions published elsewhere if they want. This is nice because it ensures that the Wikipedia content can be useful even if the Wikimedia Foundation disappears. Anyway, awesome work, congrats!
- jws 15y agoWhy do you want people to contribute additional data specifically back to you… One possibility is so that database can be created on the backs of the users, then the database owner can slam the door and turn it proprietary, like the CDDB did. Their stated goals don't lean that way, but I don't see a clause that either permits or forbids the database owner this action. Lawyers will be required to figure that out. I suspect there is an implicit ability for the grantor to terminate the license, but that is what lawyers are for. (I did notice that the termination effects reference clauses that don't exist.)
- stevenp 15y agoThis is huge. I've been mulling some ideas for awhile that would require music fingerprinting, but I've always been too overwhelmed by the available options, from a licensing and implementation standpoint. I can't wait to play with this!! :D
- regomodo 15y agoA very interesting project. I've whipped up a little test program(https://github.com/regomodo/handy_scripts/blob/master/echoprint-codegen-builder.py https://github.com/regomodo/handy_scripts/blob/master/echopr...) in Python and found either the codegen or echonest to be a little buggy. Daft Punk fingerprints come back with some very unusual results. http://pastebin.com/8Tfvd0SZ http://pastebin.com/8Tfvd0SZ
- brianwhitman 15y agocan you file an issue on echoprint-codegen or write us at the google group so we don't lose that? That definitely shouldn't be happening, there's an issue somewhere for sure.