6 ms·

> Is it brilliant or dystopian? Please help me understand how this could be considered anything but dystopian? The night sky is a commons and a natural wonder

> Is it brilliant or dystopian? Please help me understand how this could be considered anything but dystopian? The night sky is a commons and a natural wonder that humans have communed with for millennia, and this pollutes it with an obnoxious and un-ignorable visual display that nobody asked for or wanted and that benefits virtually nobody besides its creators. What upside could there possibly be?

mc32 6y ago
It depends on the culture of the person experiencing it. We don't all share the same cultural values. So, there is no reason this is not dystopian for many many people.
- bordercases 6y ago
  "We have different cultural values" is not carte blanche to say anything you want. That's like not calling Nazi and Soviet governments oppressive just because they valued social order in a different way than Allied powers did. Cultures can be dumb in ways that even they don't understand. In this case the night sky has been a part of the heritage of almost every culture in the world, except modern ones. Through selfish commercialism we've polluted it for the marginal gains of advertisers.
EastToWest 6y ago
I think it is rather dumb and annoying. Dystopian? Far from it. Do you consider a plane flying by with a banner behind it dystopian? Isn't this more or less the same kind of thing?
- 8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y ago
  I do consider that similarly bad yes.
  - EastToWest 6y ago
    Bad, sure, we both agree. Dystopian has a very specific meaning though. From Cambridge dictionary: relating to a very bad or unfair society in which there is a lot of suffering, especially an imaginary society in the future, or to the description of such a society. I fail to see how one can derive "a very bad or unfair society" and "a lot of suffering" from a QR code in night sky.
    - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y ago
      Using a loud and high visibility technology to inject an unignorable advertisement into a natural space is bad. I don't know or care what flavor of bad the dictionary would call it. Dystopian works fine for me. Sorry it doesn't for you I guess.
      - qiqing 5y ago
        You'd have to take an action to view the advertisement, otherwise, it's just dots. I kinda wish all other ads were like that, tbh.
        cjaybo 5y ago
        Wasn't there some sort of video played before the QR code was displayed? Acting as if it's an opt-in experience feels disingenuous.
- La1n 6y ago
  And if it's specifically about the night sky and it's integrity, are starlink and iridium satellites distopian?
  - gambiting 6y ago
    Absolutely. They take a common good that we have and use it for commercial purpose, Starlink should not be allowed to exist as a product, full stop. It pollutes the view of the sky for the entire Earth, even over countries which do not have access to the service, and for people who aren't happy to have their lives intruded by yet another American corporation.
    - barbazoo 5y ago
      Do they really "fly" those satellites over areas where they don't provide service and if so, do they have to?
      - gambiting 5y ago
        Yes and yes. The stated goal of Starlink is to provide entire world coverage. https://satellitemap.space/ https://satellitemap.space/
      - PeterisP 5y ago
        Yes, the way these orbits work, in order to cover one area, they orbits cover the entire globe up at least to that latitude. A geostationary orbit can "fly" above one specific spot, but that's limited to being above equator and very, very far compared to these orbits (~35000 km vs ~1000 km) which makes it worse for communications. Here's an illustration of the coverage - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#/media/File:Starlink_SpaceX_1584_satellites_72_Planes_22each.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#/media/File:Starlink_...
  - barbazoo 6y ago
    It's a balance I'd say. Arguably those satelites serve a purpose that ads don't.
- ghodith 5y ago
  Seems to me that some people use dystopian to mean “bad and like something you would see in a dystopian novel/movie.” Which in most cases cashes out to ‘bad and high-tech’
BelenusMordred 6y ago
The brilliant night sky exists on 95% of the planet's surface. Think you'll be fine here, suggest travelling outside of the city for better views.
- Daho0n 5y ago
  That sure takes a positive view of light pollution! I have never seen a "brilliant night sky" in my life and I don't live in a city. Maybe it's 95% if you count the sea but in the west it is more like 5% max.
thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago
This is same feeling I have at the beach and having to see a plane pull a banner over the ocean for Coors Light or the plethora of weed/casino billboards I see driving on public roads. We are forced into ads all around us. I'm not saying this to defend the drones, but to show the ubiquity of ads and how desensitized we've become to their invasion into our lives whether we like it or not.
- qiqing 5y ago
  It's not any more or less dystopian than a plane pulling a Coors Light ad. However, I've noticed the negativity around anything China related, and it just triggers memories of the kind of double standards my family was subjected to when growing up as a minority in the US. It's the same pattern as British news coverage of the two princesses, whether we like it or not.
  - axiosgunnar 5y ago
    Nobody on this site, I repeat nobody, has any animosity towards a random Chinese citizen for simply being Chinese in China. What you call „negativity around anything China related“ is people raised in fairly free societies (most of HN) having a gut wrench reaction to whatever overstep-du-jour the Chinese communist elites (the CCP) have committed this week.
nabilhat 5y ago
It's painfully gimmicky if it's just a product ad. Potentially very interesting as a way to find out how many IoT cameras in an entire region automatically and insecurely decode qr codes and have line of sight in a specific direction...
sarsway 5y ago
its cool? common you don't have to take everything so serious. Yes oh my that marvelous night sky... in the center of Shanghai. Better stay clear of Vegas. I mean isn't it kinda magical we're having coordinated drones form bits and bytes made of light in the sky, that people can scan using ubiquitous carry on computers?
oh_sigh 5y ago
My friend grew up in Shanghai and spent pretty much all of his time there, and told me he never saw a star until he went to western China. What night sky are you talking about?
vidarh 5y ago
I think the big thing that will determine if this is brilliant or dystopian is whether it gets repeated. As a one-off stunt to show off the ability to do it, it's awesome. If it now means the sky will be an advertising billboard every night, then it's very much dystopian.
jpindar 5y ago
>The night sky is a commons and a natural wonder In the middle of a big city?

mc32 6y ago

It depends on the culture of the person experiencing it. We don't all share the same cultural values. So, there is no reason this is not dystopian for many many people.

bordercases 6y ago
"We have different cultural values" is not carte blanche to say anything you want. That's like not calling Nazi and Soviet governments oppressive just because they valued social order in a different way than Allied powers did. Cultures can be dumb in ways that even they don't understand. In this case the night sky has been a part of the heritage of almost every culture in the world, except modern ones. Through selfish commercialism we've polluted it for the marginal gains of advertisers.

EastToWest 6y ago

I think it is rather dumb and annoying. Dystopian? Far from it. Do you consider a plane flying by with a banner behind it dystopian? Isn't this more or less the same kind of thing?

8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y ago
I do consider that similarly bad yes.
- EastToWest 6y ago
  Bad, sure, we both agree. Dystopian has a very specific meaning though. From Cambridge dictionary: relating to a very bad or unfair society in which there is a lot of suffering, especially an imaginary society in the future, or to the description of such a society. I fail to see how one can derive "a very bad or unfair society" and "a lot of suffering" from a QR code in night sky.
  - 8fGTBjZxBcHq 6y ago
    Using a loud and high visibility technology to inject an unignorable advertisement into a natural space is bad. I don't know or care what flavor of bad the dictionary would call it. Dystopian works fine for me. Sorry it doesn't for you I guess.
    - qiqing 5y ago
      You'd have to take an action to view the advertisement, otherwise, it's just dots. I kinda wish all other ads were like that, tbh.
      - cjaybo 5y ago
        Wasn't there some sort of video played before the QR code was displayed? Acting as if it's an opt-in experience feels disingenuous.
La1n 6y ago
And if it's specifically about the night sky and it's integrity, are starlink and iridium satellites distopian?
- gambiting 6y ago
  Absolutely. They take a common good that we have and use it for commercial purpose, Starlink should not be allowed to exist as a product, full stop. It pollutes the view of the sky for the entire Earth, even over countries which do not have access to the service, and for people who aren't happy to have their lives intruded by yet another American corporation.
  - barbazoo 5y ago
    Do they really "fly" those satellites over areas where they don't provide service and if so, do they have to?
    - gambiting 5y ago
      Yes and yes. The stated goal of Starlink is to provide entire world coverage. https://satellitemap.space/ https://satellitemap.space/
    - PeterisP 5y ago
      Yes, the way these orbits work, in order to cover one area, they orbits cover the entire globe up at least to that latitude. A geostationary orbit can "fly" above one specific spot, but that's limited to being above equator and very, very far compared to these orbits (~35000 km vs ~1000 km) which makes it worse for communications. Here's an illustration of the coverage - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#/media/File:Starlink_SpaceX_1584_satellites_72_Planes_22each.png https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Starlink#/media/File:Starlink_...
- barbazoo 6y ago
  It's a balance I'd say. Arguably those satelites serve a purpose that ads don't.
ghodith 5y ago
Seems to me that some people use dystopian to mean “bad and like something you would see in a dystopian novel/movie.” Which in most cases cashes out to ‘bad and high-tech’

BelenusMordred 6y ago

The brilliant night sky exists on 95% of the planet's surface. Think you'll be fine here, suggest travelling outside of the city for better views.

Daho0n 5y ago
That sure takes a positive view of light pollution! I have never seen a "brilliant night sky" in my life and I don't live in a city. Maybe it's 95% if you count the sea but in the west it is more like 5% max.

thrwn_frthr_awy 6y ago

This is same feeling I have at the beach and having to see a plane pull a banner over the ocean for Coors Light or the plethora of weed/casino billboards I see driving on public roads. We are forced into ads all around us. I'm not saying this to defend the drones, but to show the ubiquity of ads and how desensitized we've become to their invasion into our lives whether we like it or not.

qiqing 5y ago
It's not any more or less dystopian than a plane pulling a Coors Light ad. However, I've noticed the negativity around anything China related, and it just triggers memories of the kind of double standards my family was subjected to when growing up as a minority in the US. It's the same pattern as British news coverage of the two princesses, whether we like it or not.
- axiosgunnar 5y ago
  Nobody on this site, I repeat nobody, has any animosity towards a random Chinese citizen for simply being Chinese in China. What you call „negativity around anything China related“ is people raised in fairly free societies (most of HN) having a gut wrench reaction to whatever overstep-du-jour the Chinese communist elites (the CCP) have committed this week.

nabilhat 5y ago

It's painfully gimmicky if it's just a product ad. Potentially very interesting as a way to find out how many IoT cameras in an entire region automatically and insecurely decode qr codes and have line of sight in a specific direction...

sarsway 5y ago

its cool? common you don't have to take everything so serious. Yes oh my that marvelous night sky... in the center of Shanghai. Better stay clear of Vegas. I mean isn't it kinda magical we're having coordinated drones form bits and bytes made of light in the sky, that people can scan using ubiquitous carry on computers?

oh_sigh 5y ago

My friend grew up in Shanghai and spent pretty much all of his time there, and told me he never saw a star until he went to western China. What night sky are you talking about?

vidarh 5y ago

I think the big thing that will determine if this is brilliant or dystopian is whether it gets repeated. As a one-off stunt to show off the ability to do it, it's awesome. If it now means the sky will be an advertising billboard every night, then it's very much dystopian.

jpindar 5y ago

>The night sky is a commons and a natural wonder In the middle of a big city?