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It is extremely rare for the head of state to die as a direct result of battlefield engagement.

by fsloth 6y ago

deleted 6y ago
[deleted]
wffurr 6y ago
Since 1633 or so.
- enriquto 6y ago
  or libya a few years ago?
  - tgv 6y ago
    Otherwise Germany, 1945, comes to mind. And there are those who fought on the battlefield and later became head of state. They obviously didn't die, but ran a certain risk.
    - bildung 6y ago
      Hitler killed himself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler
      - tgv 6y ago
        The question was not who killed him, was it?
  - nojokes 6y ago
    I would not call it a battlefield.
    - capableweb 6y ago
      I'm not sure which of the civil wars in Libya are being referred to here, but I'd argue both of them had battlefields for sure.
- tored 6y ago
  1718
boomboomsubban 6y ago
My extreme cynicism makes me doubt it happened this time either. Not giving a victory speech and instead rushing into danger only to heroically die sounds like a cover-up of either a natural causes death or an internal coup.
- rtsil 6y ago
  The rebels claimed to have wounded him during the fights so this is more of an admission than a cover-up.
  - boomboomsubban 6y ago
    I haven't seen that claim, but even their attack that effortlessly took a border town than was completely repulsed while miraculously killing the president sounds pretty bogus.
    - rtsil 6y ago
      It was an interview(1) of the rebel's leader on RFI radio (in French) earlier today. They apparently realized Deby was there because the combat was extremely violent. They attacked him, he was wounded and evacuated on a helicopter. (1) https://soundcloud.com/radiofranceinternationale/mahamat-mahdi-ali-idriss-deby-pensait-etre-invincible https://soundcloud.com/radiofranceinternationale/mahamat-mah...
      - boomboomsubban 6y ago
        That's a bit of credibility, but the rebel leader is on good enough terms with France to get an interview talking about how they assassinated a country's leader? France has military bases in Chad, that seems like an odd connection. I realize these are now conspiracies based on assumptions. I'm not calling for the new government of Chad to be overthrown based on them, it just sounds too much like something the CIA is ultimately behind to me.
        6y ago
DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
skin in the game. there is something incredibly honorable about it. Can anyone picture BoJo, Trump or Biden jumping off a chopper in Overtheristan killing locals? In the West we use the term "who live by the sword shall die by the sword" (Matthew) but only as a warning. I think it illustrates the disconnect between these worlds. What is warning in one place/religion is a _promise_ in the other. My wife (Japanese) would laugh "at the cowardice" displayed by somebody who questions the right to revenge (an eye for an eye) or hesitates taking their life to save the honor of their family, etc ... This sounds alien to Westerners if not terrifying to those in power to have an honor based system. It is why media in all German speaking countries use the word "clan" only in a racist sense reserved for specific minorities and aimed to criminalize those who live in these older forms of social groups (with perhaps hundreds of people)[0] While most are quick to denounce an evangelical missionary[1] hopping of the boat in the Andaman sea to "convert the local heathens", it's much easier to turn a blind eye at every-day injustice against alternative forms of social groups (Roma in Europe come to mind, refugees, or indeed very large families of South Easter European decent that would automatically be labelled terrorists or criminals, Bosnians, Kosovo-Albanias, etc). [0] a clan in Hamburg, Berlin, Vienna etc is never somebody "good" e.g. the strong family bond here is caricaturized as an organized criminal and only mentioned in relation to drug or human trafficking. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-usa-murder-idUSKCN1NQ0QT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-usa-murder-idUSKCN1...
- snikeris 6y ago
  I think the doctrine of an eye for an eye is alive and well in the West. It seems to be a part of the human condition. However, rejecting it isn't cowardice. It's spiritual growth.
  - DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
    > However, rejecting it isn't cowardice. It's spiritual growth. sure is. it's also what gives us the feeling we have a right (if not duty if you add religion or moral arguments) to forcefully integrate these societies (for the purpose of taxation / corvée / slavery) the way we have done it since thousands of years. Oldest example perhaps China's expanding kingdoms creating hill tribes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott#The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott#The_Art_of_Not_...
deleted 6y ago
[deleted]

It is extremely rare for the head of state to die as a direct result of battlefield engagement.

by fsloth 6y ago

It is extremely rare for the head of state to die as a direct result of battlefield engagement.

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]

wffurr 6y ago

Since 1633 or so.

enriquto 6y ago
or libya a few years ago?
- tgv 6y ago
  Otherwise Germany, 1945, comes to mind. And there are those who fought on the battlefield and later became head of state. They obviously didn't die, but ran a certain risk.
  - bildung 6y ago
    Hitler killed himself https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Death_of_Adolf_Hitler
    - tgv 6y ago
      The question was not who killed him, was it?
- nojokes 6y ago
  I would not call it a battlefield.
  - capableweb 6y ago
    I'm not sure which of the civil wars in Libya are being referred to here, but I'd argue both of them had battlefields for sure.
tored 6y ago
1718

boomboomsubban 6y ago

My extreme cynicism makes me doubt it happened this time either. Not giving a victory speech and instead rushing into danger only to heroically die sounds like a cover-up of either a natural causes death or an internal coup.

rtsil 6y ago
The rebels claimed to have wounded him during the fights so this is more of an admission than a cover-up.
- boomboomsubban 6y ago
  I haven't seen that claim, but even their attack that effortlessly took a border town than was completely repulsed while miraculously killing the president sounds pretty bogus.
  - rtsil 6y ago
    It was an interview(1) of the rebel's leader on RFI radio (in French) earlier today. They apparently realized Deby was there because the combat was extremely violent. They attacked him, he was wounded and evacuated on a helicopter. (1) https://soundcloud.com/radiofranceinternationale/mahamat-mahdi-ali-idriss-deby-pensait-etre-invincible https://soundcloud.com/radiofranceinternationale/mahamat-mah...
    - boomboomsubban 6y ago
      That's a bit of credibility, but the rebel leader is on good enough terms with France to get an interview talking about how they assassinated a country's leader? France has military bases in Chad, that seems like an odd connection. I realize these are now conspiracies based on assumptions. I'm not calling for the new government of Chad to be overthrown based on them, it just sounds too much like something the CIA is ultimately behind to me.
      - 6y ago

DyslexicAtheist 6y ago

skin in the game. there is something incredibly honorable about it. Can anyone picture BoJo, Trump or Biden jumping off a chopper in Overtheristan killing locals? In the West we use the term "who live by the sword shall die by the sword" (Matthew) but only as a warning. I think it illustrates the disconnect between these worlds. What is warning in one place/religion is a _promise_ in the other. My wife (Japanese) would laugh "at the cowardice" displayed by somebody who questions the right to revenge (an eye for an eye) or hesitates taking their life to save the honor of their family, etc ... This sounds alien to Westerners if not terrifying to those in power to have an honor based system. It is why media in all German speaking countries use the word "clan" only in a racist sense reserved for specific minorities and aimed to criminalize those who live in these older forms of social groups (with perhaps hundreds of people)[0] While most are quick to denounce an evangelical missionary[1] hopping of the boat in the Andaman sea to "convert the local heathens", it's much easier to turn a blind eye at every-day injustice against alternative forms of social groups (Roma in Europe come to mind, refugees, or indeed very large families of South Easter European decent that would automatically be labelled terrorists or criminals, Bosnians, Kosovo-Albanias, etc). [0] a clan in Hamburg, Berlin, Vienna etc is never somebody "good" e.g. the strong family bond here is caricaturized as an organized criminal and only mentioned in relation to drug or human trafficking. [1] https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-usa-murder-idUSKCN1NQ0QT https://www.reuters.com/article/us-india-usa-murder-idUSKCN1...

snikeris 6y ago
I think the doctrine of an eye for an eye is alive and well in the West. It seems to be a part of the human condition. However, rejecting it isn't cowardice. It's spiritual growth.
- DyslexicAtheist 6y ago
  > However, rejecting it isn't cowardice. It's spiritual growth. sure is. it's also what gives us the feeling we have a right (if not duty if you add religion or moral arguments) to forcefully integrate these societies (for the purpose of taxation / corvée / slavery) the way we have done it since thousands of years. Oldest example perhaps China's expanding kingdoms creating hill tribes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott#The_Art_of_Not_Being_Governed https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/James_C._Scott#The_Art_of_Not_...

deleted 6y ago

[deleted]