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As someone who writes mainly loop based genres I agree and have thought about much the same stack of abstractions. Acid techno is a great starting point as it's

As someone who writes mainly loop based genres I agree and have thought about much the same stack of abstractions. Acid techno is a great starting point as it's not known for complexity, being traditionally produced with a 909+303+303, devices that support only a 1 bar loop (a genre with origins that predate wide availability of digital audio workstations). But like yourself I'm interested in more complex genres. One example of more general EDM levels of abstraction for me might go 1a. this tune needs to play with space (stereo/reverb) more 1b. we need some interesting background sounds therefore 2. we need an interesting, wide background sound to start at bar 32 and end at 64 Dropping in something from a sample library to achieve that wouldn't satisfy me as every step of constructing that sound is following other rules of abstraction e.g. how should it fit with the existing tonal balance? with the existing rhythm? etc. But at the same time the process is 1% inspiration 99% perspiration - it's following unwritten almost-rules which would be fascinating to capture in an algorithm if I could. They wouldn't have to be completely general rules, just my own personal ones. A related (light hearted) thing I wrote on EDM abstractions a while back https://omnisplore.wordpress.com/2017/11/25/kolmogorov-complexity-the-thing-that-gives-energy-to-dance-music/ https://omnisplore.wordpress.com/2017/11/25/kolmogorov-compl...

Supernaut 5y ago
> 909+303+303, devices that support only a 1 bar loop Ha, no, you can input a great deal more than a single bar into them. They were designed to let users store a variety of patterns, which can then be assembled into a traditional intro-verse-chorus song structure, if you so wish.
- sideshowb 5y ago
  Doh I stand corrected :) Though still nowhere near as much potential for refining the end result as you get with a DAW. That's not to say live performance doesn't have value of course!
  - kortex 5y ago
    Yep I've done it. Suuuper tedious. Which is why I suspect even though you can do 2 or more bar phrases, single bar loops (vamps?) are pretty typical, instead varying the filter envelope and distortion over time.
    - sideshowb 5y ago
      Off topic but I found my preferred method of 'live' performance (for dnb) was to write a tune in the DAW with the intention that a few of the lead parts be played live, then switch off those parts and render what's effectively a backing track. Meant I could sort the mixing/mastering beforehand and keep in the flow of rocking out on synths when it came to the gig. I did use ableton but only to auto load synth patches/effect chains when each backing track was triggered. I tried many other approaches involving 5 people driving a live looping rig but the above was worked best for me, which I guess made my act a 2010 equivalent of the guy wearing the burgandy velvet suit in the hotel bar ;-)
- munificent 5y ago
  Even with a single pattern, you can add a lot of variation just by changing the pattern lengths to do polyrhythms. Say you do: 909: 16 steps 303 bass: 5 steps 303 lead: 3 steps Now you have a sequence that only repeats every 240 steps or every 15 bars, even though each device never uses more than a single 16 step pattern.

Supernaut 5y ago

> 909+303+303, devices that support only a 1 bar loop Ha, no, you can input a great deal more than a single bar into them. They were designed to let users store a variety of patterns, which can then be assembled into a traditional intro-verse-chorus song structure, if you so wish.

sideshowb 5y ago
Doh I stand corrected :) Though still nowhere near as much potential for refining the end result as you get with a DAW. That's not to say live performance doesn't have value of course!
- kortex 5y ago
  Yep I've done it. Suuuper tedious. Which is why I suspect even though you can do 2 or more bar phrases, single bar loops (vamps?) are pretty typical, instead varying the filter envelope and distortion over time.
  - sideshowb 5y ago
    Off topic but I found my preferred method of 'live' performance (for dnb) was to write a tune in the DAW with the intention that a few of the lead parts be played live, then switch off those parts and render what's effectively a backing track. Meant I could sort the mixing/mastering beforehand and keep in the flow of rocking out on synths when it came to the gig. I did use ableton but only to auto load synth patches/effect chains when each backing track was triggered. I tried many other approaches involving 5 people driving a live looping rig but the above was worked best for me, which I guess made my act a 2010 equivalent of the guy wearing the burgandy velvet suit in the hotel bar ;-)
munificent 5y ago
Even with a single pattern, you can add a lot of variation just by changing the pattern lengths to do polyrhythms. Say you do: 909: 16 steps 303 bass: 5 steps 303 lead: 3 steps Now you have a sequence that only repeats every 240 steps or every 15 bars, even though each device never uses more than a single 16 step pattern.