8 ms·

> When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really that important to follow t

> When the specs are constantly churning in order to keep one gigantic company's browser an effective monopoly, maybe it isn't really that important to follow them so closely... The notion breaks as soon as your users want to use youtube or gmail, which for some mysterious reason keep insisting on using all these useless "standards" even though they have no benefit to the user.

swsieber 6y ago
Youtube and gmail will mysteriously break for people on Firefox too, so it's not that much worse. /sarcasm (sort of...)
- Ygg2 6y ago
  Pretty sure those sites break in Edge and Brave as well...
  - Cthulhu_ 6y ago
    They break them on purpose so people will switch to Chrome. And the worst part is, there's no evidence (yet?) that there's malice behind it. Maybe we'll get a whistleblower at some point, but that'll only happen when their income no longer covers buying off their conscience.
    - scaladev 6y ago
      Do they only break for users in the United States? I've been using Firefox exclusively since about 2.0, and I've never had any of the Google projects break for me. Not once. Yet this seems to be a pretty common problem around here.
      - Ygg2 6y ago
        I'm from Europe and on one occasion Youtube was broken on Firefox but not on Chrome. It was fixed in the day or two.
        yakubin 6y ago
        In my experience, YouTube in-video links (those that e.g. show thumbnails of videos and are pointed at by vloggers with their fingers) have been broken in Firefox for years. Not that I complain, I've always been annoyed by those. I think it took me 2 years to realize that after seeing vloggers point at invisible things. I had to double-check in Chrome. (I just assumed that they forgot to add the links when editing.)
        cardiffspaceman 6y ago
        Those links don't appear on my Android-based Youtube clients that come with my cable box and Sony TV. The vlogger's hand points to nothing. It's amazing how second-class Youtube on Android TV is, maybe someone at Google hates testing it. I still manage to use it for about 75% of my Youtube usage. My wife and I are definitely going through a Youtube phase, which will probably end when the ads reach a tipping point.
    - michalstanko 6y ago
      What exactly is broken in Firefox on YouTube or Gmail? I'm not a heavy Firefox user, but when I try it every once in a while, I've never noticed anything broken on any of the Google's sites, even Maps and Docs worked just fine - but then, maybe I wasn't trying out some advanced features.
      - visiblink 6y ago
        My wife and I have had a fanless PC hooked up to our TV since 2011. Firefox is the only browser we use and we watch Youtube every day. If it broke, I'd know about it or hear about it. It never breaks.
      - bmn__ 6y ago
        > What exactly is broken in Firefox on YouTube or Gmail? Performance. That makes the sabotage so insidious! https://tech.co/news/google-slowed-youtube-firefox-edge-2019-04 https://tech.co/news/google-slowed-youtube-firefox-edge-2019... https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/disable-polymer-youtube https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/disable-polymer-youtube
    - jojohohanon 6y ago
      Incompetent vs malice... If they are close to the edge cases of the spec, just not testing on Firefox will break it. By negligence, rather than malice.
- losvedir 6y ago
  Regular Firefox user here with a YouTube Premium account. I use it all the time and have never had any issues.
  - tristan957 6y ago
    Just a couple weeks ago, you couldn't use the spacebar in YouTube search in Firefox only.
trenchgun 6y ago
mail.google.com and YouTube.com are just frontends. There are alternative and better ways to access gmail and YouTube. I just found this one for youtube and twitter for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/jlkqxa/any_youtube_frontend_alternative/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/jlkqxa/any_...
lenkite 6y ago
This notion also breaks when user wants to use govt and financial (bank, etc) web-sites.
- tomcooks 6y ago
  Depends on the gov, in Europe they tend to follow usability guidelines
- heresie-dabord 6y ago
  True, a browser is now necessary in these cases. However, my government and banks have strong incentives to make their services accessible and not break usability.
grishka 6y ago
For YouTube, use youtube-dl or VLC (it's capable of playing YouTube videos directly). For gmail, use an IMAP+SMTP client of your liking, of which there's no shortage.
- alcinnz 6y ago
  Or there's https://invidio.us/ https://invidio.us/ !
Chris2048 6y ago
> as your users want to use youtube or gmail Yes, as long as a requirement is something those corps control, they'll essentially control you. The answer is to ignore support for gmail and youtube and hope their reputation catches up to them - specifically youtube alienating creators and becoming yet another corporate on-demand television-clone.

swsieber 6y ago

Youtube and gmail will mysteriously break for people on Firefox too, so it's not that much worse. /sarcasm (sort of...)

Ygg2 6y ago
Pretty sure those sites break in Edge and Brave as well...
- Cthulhu_ 6y ago
  They break them on purpose so people will switch to Chrome. And the worst part is, there's no evidence (yet?) that there's malice behind it. Maybe we'll get a whistleblower at some point, but that'll only happen when their income no longer covers buying off their conscience.
  - scaladev 6y ago
    Do they only break for users in the United States? I've been using Firefox exclusively since about 2.0, and I've never had any of the Google projects break for me. Not once. Yet this seems to be a pretty common problem around here.
    - Ygg2 6y ago
      I'm from Europe and on one occasion Youtube was broken on Firefox but not on Chrome. It was fixed in the day or two.
      - yakubin 6y ago
        In my experience, YouTube in-video links (those that e.g. show thumbnails of videos and are pointed at by vloggers with their fingers) have been broken in Firefox for years. Not that I complain, I've always been annoyed by those. I think it took me 2 years to realize that after seeing vloggers point at invisible things. I had to double-check in Chrome. (I just assumed that they forgot to add the links when editing.)
        cardiffspaceman 6y ago
        Those links don't appear on my Android-based Youtube clients that come with my cable box and Sony TV. The vlogger's hand points to nothing. It's amazing how second-class Youtube on Android TV is, maybe someone at Google hates testing it. I still manage to use it for about 75% of my Youtube usage. My wife and I are definitely going through a Youtube phase, which will probably end when the ads reach a tipping point.
  - michalstanko 6y ago
    What exactly is broken in Firefox on YouTube or Gmail? I'm not a heavy Firefox user, but when I try it every once in a while, I've never noticed anything broken on any of the Google's sites, even Maps and Docs worked just fine - but then, maybe I wasn't trying out some advanced features.
    - visiblink 6y ago
      My wife and I have had a fanless PC hooked up to our TV since 2011. Firefox is the only browser we use and we watch Youtube every day. If it broke, I'd know about it or hear about it. It never breaks.
    - bmn__ 6y ago
      > What exactly is broken in Firefox on YouTube or Gmail? Performance. That makes the sabotage so insidious! https://tech.co/news/google-slowed-youtube-firefox-edge-2019-04 https://tech.co/news/google-slowed-youtube-firefox-edge-2019... https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/disable-polymer-youtube https://addons.mozilla.org/addon/disable-polymer-youtube
  - jojohohanon 6y ago
    Incompetent vs malice... If they are close to the edge cases of the spec, just not testing on Firefox will break it. By negligence, rather than malice.
losvedir 6y ago
Regular Firefox user here with a YouTube Premium account. I use it all the time and have never had any issues.
- tristan957 6y ago
  Just a couple weeks ago, you couldn't use the spacebar in YouTube search in Firefox only.

trenchgun 6y ago

mail.google.com and YouTube.com are just frontends. There are alternative and better ways to access gmail and YouTube. I just found this one for youtube and twitter for example: https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/jlkqxa/any_youtube_frontend_alternative/ https://www.reddit.com/r/privacytoolsIO/comments/jlkqxa/any_...

lenkite 6y ago

This notion also breaks when user wants to use govt and financial (bank, etc) web-sites.

tomcooks 6y ago
Depends on the gov, in Europe they tend to follow usability guidelines
heresie-dabord 6y ago
True, a browser is now necessary in these cases. However, my government and banks have strong incentives to make their services accessible and not break usability.

grishka 6y ago

For YouTube, use youtube-dl or VLC (it's capable of playing YouTube videos directly). For gmail, use an IMAP+SMTP client of your liking, of which there's no shortage.

alcinnz 6y ago
Or there's https://invidio.us/ https://invidio.us/ !

Chris2048 6y ago

> as your users want to use youtube or gmail Yes, as long as a requirement is something those corps control, they'll essentially control you. The answer is to ignore support for gmail and youtube and hope their reputation catches up to them - specifically youtube alienating creators and becoming yet another corporate on-demand television-clone.