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I've read through this multiple times and I am just missing your point. I am not US based nor a faang worker. My point was about how difficult it is for a blu

I've read through this multiple times and I am just missing your point. I am not US based nor a faang worker. My point was about how difficult it is for a blue collar worker to push back against anything, and while I appreciate that it may be difficult for you, or any other programmer, have a look at us lower slobs as well. You strike? Okay discussion? We strike? We get attacked physically and online with groups we cannot help but be drown out by

intergalplan 5y ago
Oh god, sorry, I didn't mean to woe-is-me programmers to some kind of perfect equivalence with $35-40k-and-bennies-if-we're-lucky/unionized blue collar folks. I do think in terms of power dynamics most tech workers are much closer to that than to the "professional class" (doctors, lawyers, professors sort-of-but-less-so-these-days) or Fussellian upper-middle that they wish they were. $80-175k doesn't break them out of the tier of income where they're burning much of their money competing with the other working-class stiffs for e.g. housing, and (very relatedly) education for their kids. It's more comfortable, yes, and it'd be crazy to complain about it compared to the alternative, but it's also much more similar than it is different, as far as ability to tell a manager "no". My intent was just to highlight the above: that most people employed in "tech" would perform a very similar calculation to what any other blue collar worker would, and would end up at the same conclusion of cowing to management. The market's better, sure, but if you're not part of the Tech Worker Aristocracy, and especially if you have a family, you're gonna ask "how high" when the boss says "jump", just like any other poor blue-collar bastard. The top-level comments you were wondering about aren't representative of most of the tech-work world (same as much of the perspective, or at least the apparent perspective, of this site isn't)
- marakv2 5y ago
  You may have a (rather long winded :-p) point there, but a white collar worker has a lot more options than a blue collar. Easier to replace a forklift driver than a coder. But don't let that make you think, that I don't realise it's also difficult for a white collar. I've been there. I wish I had stayed. I just ask that when. You guys are feeling that pressure, to spare a though as to what tools and such you can do to help us down here.
  - ShroudedNight 5y ago
    I believe you're mostly in vociferous agreement. If anything I read GPs posts as a warning that we (software developers) do ourselves a disservice pretending to be superior to other forms of labour.

intergalplan 5y ago

Oh god, sorry, I didn't mean to woe-is-me programmers to some kind of perfect equivalence with $35-40k-and-bennies-if-we're-lucky/unionized blue collar folks. I do think in terms of power dynamics most tech workers are much closer to that than to the "professional class" (doctors, lawyers, professors sort-of-but-less-so-these-days) or Fussellian upper-middle that they wish they were. $80-175k doesn't break them out of the tier of income where they're burning much of their money competing with the other working-class stiffs for e.g. housing, and (very relatedly) education for their kids. It's more comfortable, yes, and it'd be crazy to complain about it compared to the alternative, but it's also much more similar than it is different, as far as ability to tell a manager "no". My intent was just to highlight the above: that most people employed in "tech" would perform a very similar calculation to what any other blue collar worker would, and would end up at the same conclusion of cowing to management. The market's better, sure, but if you're not part of the Tech Worker Aristocracy, and especially if you have a family, you're gonna ask "how high" when the boss says "jump", just like any other poor blue-collar bastard. The top-level comments you were wondering about aren't representative of most of the tech-work world (same as much of the perspective, or at least the apparent perspective, of this site isn't)

marakv2 5y ago
You may have a (rather long winded :-p) point there, but a white collar worker has a lot more options than a blue collar. Easier to replace a forklift driver than a coder. But don't let that make you think, that I don't realise it's also difficult for a white collar. I've been there. I wish I had stayed. I just ask that when. You guys are feeling that pressure, to spare a though as to what tools and such you can do to help us down here.
- ShroudedNight 5y ago
  I believe you're mostly in vociferous agreement. If anything I read GPs posts as a warning that we (software developers) do ourselves a disservice pretending to be superior to other forms of labour.