4 ms·

Thats not legal in California.

by adrr 6y ago

YeBanKo 6y ago
What exactly do you mean?
- slver 6y ago
  In practice it means at most they should've called him on the phone and not leave an email trail. You do what your boss wants, or you're out of a job. Outside California and inside California.
- m463 6y ago
  I believe California employment law is pretty pro-employee. Mostly if you develop something in your spare time, without using company resources in any way, it is yours. I think that's why there are lots of startups in california. In other states, employers in some cases can own everything, up to and including ideas in your head. I don't know an example state that is the other side of the coin, pro-employer, but maybe texas? (uneducated guess)
  - saagarjha 6y ago
    This provision is useless if you work for a large company, because it carves out an exception for anything that could be related to your employer’s business.
staticassertion 6y ago
Non competes are illegal in California. But while you are employed by a company I believe that most contracts require that even outside of work the company owns your IP unless otherwise stated - that's why there's a bit in your contract where you can specify prior inventions and whatnot, I believe. Every company I've worked for has had it this way.
- eqvinox 6y ago
  I work for a small (barely 2 digit people) open source shop and we don't have it that way, but that's probably because we're so small... Funnily enough I release some of my work under BSD-style licenses while company stuff is all GPL :D [2 sidenotes though: 1) I'm in the EU, and 2) a previous job, working on the very exact same open source project, had a clause like that.]
- mgomez 6y ago
  > most contracts require that even outside of work the company owns your IP unless otherwise stated Assuming the outside work was performed on the employee's own time/equipment and doesn't compete with the employer's business, such contracts would be unenforceable in California. See section 2870 of the California Labor Code: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=2870 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
  - dragonwriter 6y ago
    > Assuming the outside work was performed on the employee's own time/equipment and doesn't compete with the employer's business The rule actually encompasses more than simple competition, but in any case work on OS components for an alternative (and therefore competing) OS for the employer’s hardware for which they also sell proprietary OS software does compete with the employer’s business, so... (The particular thing the employee was denied permission to work on seems to be VNIC for IBM Power)
    - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
      Yeah, this is the loophole in the law: if you work for a big company, there are very few areas that meet the criteria specified in the law.
  - shagie 6y ago
    > Any provision in an employment agreement which provides that an employee shall assign, or offer to assign, any of his or her rights in an invention to his or her employer shall not apply to an invention that the employee developed entirely on his or her own time without using the employer’s equipment, supplies, facilities, or trade secret information except for those inventions that either: > (1) Relate at the time of conception or reduction to practice of the invention to the employer’s business, or actual or demonstrably anticipated research or development of the employer or ... I am not a lawyer, but I think it would not be unreasonable to believe that work on the kernel would be related to IBM's business (like RedHat). Its not just that it doesn't compete with the employer's business but if it is related to the employer's business. Furthermore, while the own time/equipment is there, there is also trade secret information mentioned beyond the time and equipment constraint.

Thats not legal in California.

by adrr 6y ago

Thats not legal in California.

YeBanKo 6y ago

What exactly do you mean?

slver 6y ago
In practice it means at most they should've called him on the phone and not leave an email trail. You do what your boss wants, or you're out of a job. Outside California and inside California.
m463 6y ago
I believe California employment law is pretty pro-employee. Mostly if you develop something in your spare time, without using company resources in any way, it is yours. I think that's why there are lots of startups in california. In other states, employers in some cases can own everything, up to and including ideas in your head. I don't know an example state that is the other side of the coin, pro-employer, but maybe texas? (uneducated guess)
- saagarjha 6y ago
  This provision is useless if you work for a large company, because it carves out an exception for anything that could be related to your employer’s business.

staticassertion 6y ago

Non competes are illegal in California. But while you are employed by a company I believe that most contracts require that even outside of work the company owns your IP unless otherwise stated - that's why there's a bit in your contract where you can specify prior inventions and whatnot, I believe. Every company I've worked for has had it this way.

eqvinox 6y ago
I work for a small (barely 2 digit people) open source shop and we don't have it that way, but that's probably because we're so small... Funnily enough I release some of my work under BSD-style licenses while company stuff is all GPL :D [2 sidenotes though: 1) I'm in the EU, and 2) a previous job, working on the very exact same open source project, had a clause like that.]
mgomez 6y ago
> most contracts require that even outside of work the company owns your IP unless otherwise stated Assuming the outside work was performed on the employee's own time/equipment and doesn't compete with the employer's business, such contracts would be unenforceable in California. See section 2870 of the California Labor Code: https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=LAB&sectionNum=2870 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySectio...
- dragonwriter 6y ago
  > Assuming the outside work was performed on the employee's own time/equipment and doesn't compete with the employer's business The rule actually encompasses more than simple competition, but in any case work on OS components for an alternative (and therefore competing) OS for the employer’s hardware for which they also sell proprietary OS software does compete with the employer’s business, so... (The particular thing the employee was denied permission to work on seems to be VNIC for IBM Power)
  - fiddlerwoaroof 6y ago
    Yeah, this is the loophole in the law: if you work for a big company, there are very few areas that meet the criteria specified in the law.
- shagie 6y ago
  > Any provision in an employment agreement which provides that an employee shall assign, or offer to assign, any of his or her rights in an invention to his or her employer shall not apply to an invention that the employee developed entirely on his or her own time without using the employer’s equipment, supplies, facilities, or trade secret information except for those inventions that either: > (1) Relate at the time of conception or reduction to practice of the invention to the employer’s business, or actual or demonstrably anticipated research or development of the employer or ... I am not a lawyer, but I think it would not be unreasonable to believe that work on the kernel would be related to IBM's business (like RedHat). Its not just that it doesn't compete with the employer's business but if it is related to the employer's business. Furthermore, while the own time/equipment is there, there is also trade secret information mentioned beyond the time and equipment constraint.